5th & 6th Generation (2002-2006 & 2007-2011)Toyota Camry Discussion for years: 2002-2006 & 2007-2011
Topics of discussion range from fuel economy, safety, modifications, performance all involving America's favorite family car, the Toyota Camry.
I realize this may sound strange, but I am sure I heard a metallic "pinging" sound from the engine over the weekend. I was driving with the radio off and windows down, just accelerating normally. I'm concerned about what could cause this ("pre-ingition?,"knock"?).
The details of my car are 07 LE 4 cylinder auto with about 40000KM. I usually use regular grade gasoline, sometimes midgrade. I am taking my car in for service this week and have requested a diagnostic on the engine. Has anyone experienced this?
If you can reproduce it regularly on your current tank of gas..... dump a octane booster in the tank and try to reproduce the problem. If it goes away... it was the gas. If not, then something else is going on.
A diagnosis will do nothing if the check engine light did not come on.
Take your car out, after it's warmed up beat the crap out of it. That should solve your problem.
Follow up to my last post...... if the octane booster trick doesn't solve it.
Then I wouldn't take it out and beat the crap out of it, not wise. As you may have spark issues (fouled plugs, bad plug - too much gap/plat tip broke off, wire issues, who knows etc. and or fuel delivery issues (clogged fuel filter, fuel pump etc.) And if that's the case beating the crap out of it will only hammer the rod bearings even more and cause more damage.
NOS makes some good octane booster and the STP stuff works fine too. We used to use both on the DYNO at the shop for the street cars to diagnose knock and or pinging problems. Of course we could tune the LS1/LT1 based motors around this issue too. But usually there was 110 and 116 at the shop so that always did the trick!
If you are in the Toronto area... Karbelt in Pickering should have the NOS stuff or you can go to any Canadian Tire.
BTW light pinging and or pre ignition doesn't hurt an engine, knock sensors tells the computer to retard timing as best as it can to help protect the engine. It's only if it's excessive pinging and or pre ignition, you keep your foot into the gas and let it rattle away many times over and over to redline.
Follow up to my last post...... if the octane booster trick doesn't solve it.
Then I wouldn't take it out and beat the crap out of it, not wise. As you may have spark issues (fouled plugs, bad plug - too much gap/plat tip broke off, wire issues, who knows etc. and or fuel delivery issues (clogged fuel filter, fuel pump etc.) And if that's the case beating the crap out of it will only hammer the rod bearings even more and cause more damage.
NOS makes some good octane booster and the STP stuff works fine too. We used to use both on the DYNO at the shop for the street cars to diagnose knock and or pinging problems. Of course we could tune the LS1/LT1 based motors around this issue too. But usually there was 110 and 116 at the shop so that always did the trick!
If you are in the Toronto area... Karbelt in Pickering should have the NOS stuff or you can go to any Canadian Tire.
BTW light pinging and or pre ignition doesn't hurt an engine, knock sensors tells the computer to retard timing as best as it can to help protect the engine. It's only if it's excessive pinging and or pre ignition, you keep your foot into the gas and let it rattle away many times over and over to redline.
First, octane booster will only bring the fuel octane up about 1 octane. It's not likely to make a difference. Remember points and octane aren't the same thing. 10 octane points is only 1 octane.
Second, having and ignition or fuel delivery problem will not "hammer" the bearings even more as you stated. If the problem was severe enough to do so, the ECU would see a massive amount of knock counts that it couldn't control or a missfire that would set the check engine light.
It's probably some carbon buildup that a thorough run will help knock loose.
First, octane booster will only bring the fuel octane up about 1 octane. It's not likely to make a difference. Remember points and octane aren't the same thing. 10 octane points is only 1 octane.
Second, having and ignition or fuel delivery problem will not "hammer" the bearings even more as you stated. If the problem was severe enough to do so, the ECU would see a massive amount of knock counts that it couldn't control or a missfire that would set the check engine light.
It's probably some carbon buildup that a thorough run will help knock loose.
Octane booster on a 1/4 tank or less of gas…. the octane will come up much more than 1 point. I did mentioned mix 110 or 116 too. I'm sure you heard of Ed Wright of FastChips, met him know him etc. That's the first thing he'd tell you to do.
You are assuming its carbon build up. I'm taking the other stance..... a more conservative one as there could be something else wrong that's more serious than carbon build up. So hammering it isn't the best way to start. You could be right, but it’s not the most conservative approach.
What do I know………. I’ve only spent 1000+ of hours of dyno time at the old shop with some of the best LT1/LS1 tuners in the country. I’m sure you’ve read the 2-3 dozens of LS1/LT1 related articles in GM/Pontiac High Tech, Corvette etc this shop was responsible for.
To each is own…. But I sure wouldn’t give just hammer it as advice, not seeing the car, having it on a scan tool, octane boost etc.
Well, I don't know the you met and knew Ed Wright!
You MUST know everything then.
I only have extensive auto repair experience, drag racing, road racing, and circle track experience. Because of my limited knowledge people contact me through PM's, email, and telephone to get advice. Many times from technicians at car dealers (happened once yesterday while I was at the racetrack). Maybe it's because I'm so stupid that a professional IHRA team offered me a job last year?
Only an inexperienced backyard wannabe technician (oops, substitute "mechanic" for technician) would think of adding octane booster to a car.
Then again, you "know" somebody...
... and higher octane is the greatest thing in the world.
I also don't need a scantool to tell me that the problem isn't always present and the check engine light is not on. That alone throws all the possibilities that you listed, right out the window.
EDIT: You can also ask your good friend Ed if it's a good idea to add octane booster to 4 gallons of fuel in a concentration large enough to boost the octane 2 or more octane ratings. The answer will be NO. Octane booster isn't a very good fuel. There goes another one of your theories...
Wow with your extensive experience..... everything you say we should all listen huh? From reading many of your other posts... that's what my take away is. BTW your a bit arrogant and I guess now since you gave me your well documented credentials... now I know why, you have every right to be!
Anyhow, maybe you should get on that TunerCat or LT1Edit and get your slug moving a little bit fast than mid 13's! With all that knowledge I'm sure you get her into the 12's.
Everybody..... when you experience KNOCK and or PRE-IGNATION:
Mr. TRD VVTi says "Take your car out, after it's warmed up beat the crap out of it. That should solve your problem."
Who knows maybe he'll aide and assist with any repairs and or give you a warranty with his advice!
Wow with your extensive experience..... everything you say we should all listen huh? From reading many of your other posts... that's what my take away is. BTW your a bit arrogant and I guess now since you gave me your well documented credentials... now I know why, you have every right to be!
Anyhow, maybe you should get on that TunerCat or LT1Edit and get your slug moving a little bit fast than mid 13's! With all that knowledge I'm sure you get her into the 12's.
Everybody..... when you experience KNOCK and or PRE-IGNATION:
Mr. TRD VVTi says "Take your car out, after it's warmed up beat the crap out of it. That should solve your problem."
Who knows maybe he'll aide and assist with any repairs and or give you a warranty with his advice!
As you can see, my 242,000 mile on the original longblock slug isn't set up for running the 1/4 mile. You should have been able to figure that out on your own. Perhaps your extensive knowledge of other people tells you that drag cars have 32MM solid front sway bars, 13" 6 piston front brakes, lowering springs, and 3.42 gears to make them faster in the 1/4 mile? Ask them, it actually hurts 1/4 mile performance.
By your reply, it's easy to see that you really don't know what you're talking about. Luckily, the people that you know, do.
EDIT: I never said that everybody with knock or preignition should go out and beat their car. Every symptom isn't standard on every car. If you knew what you were talking about, you'd already know that as well.
By the way, would you please support your theories with some facts. I'd like to believe you but you can't seem to back up any of your statements.
My extensive Toyota repair experience has resulted in me seeing this problem numberous times.
Thanks for the information everyone. I did notice that the pinging was when I first started accelerating from a stop, but as I kept on the gas it seemed to stop.
I am hoping it was a bad tank of gas, although I only buy from the majors (guess that doesn't guarantee much though). I let the tank run as dry as I could and just filled up today.
I think it would be strange to be an actual engine problem (carbon buildup), other than some electronic control or spark issue. I didn't hear the noise today, so I'll see what happens.
I think it would be strange to be an actual engine problem (carbon buildup), other than some electronic control or spark issue. I didn't hear the noise today, so I'll see what happens.
Carbon buildup isn't an actual engine problem.
Actually, that's about all that it can be. If you had an actual engine problem, it would occur consistently. If it was an electronic control or spark issue the check engine light would come on.
It would stop while you're accellerating, the load decreases as you get up to speed.
Just a little bit of carbon can cause pre-ignition/detonation. A flake of carbon sticking to the piston/valve/head can have a sharp edge that gets very hot. When the fuel gets injected into the cylinder it can hit that hot edge and ignite the fuel prematurely.
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Knock
From reading many of your other posts... that's what my take away is. BTW your a bit arrogant and I guess now since you gave me your well documented credentials... now I know why, you have every right to be! 
Perhaps your extensive knowledge of other people tells you that drag cars have 32MM solid front sway bars, 13" 6 piston front brakes, lowering springs, and 3.42 gears to make them faster in the 1/4 mile? Ask them, it actually hurts 1/4 mile performance.
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