Brake fluid and other adventures

[ilyaphd]

Hello all, I have a 2003 Camry LE 4 cyl Auto. I am changing break pads and rotors and wondering whether to change brake fluid. The car has 47.5K miles on it. There is no problem with braking except i get pulsation of the pedal at high speeds. Rotors have been machined twice already to the point where they are too thin. Each time after machining, the pulsating pedal feeling was gone and returned. The guy who machined rotors claimed that they can be "bad metal" like layers of metal that come off and make the rotor "wobble" a bit enough to create pulsation. Do you guys agree with this nonsense? Anyway, I decided to go with Brembo rotors and good ceramic pads and do it myself. At this point, I wondered to change brake fluid. I am a DIY a bit so i can do simple things like brake change but never done brake fluid. Should I change it at all? How does one tell when it is no good? How would one do it if it needs changing? or I should not bother and pay $130 for dealership flush!

Thanks.

[71Corolla]

My advise, flush it yourself, that way you know it will be done RIGHT. Get yourself a big bottle of brake fluid and bleed away. I like to do it the simple way, I use an old emission hose to go on the bleeder nipple and put it in a glass jar of fluid and slowly pump the brakes.

Other people like to use automated methods, which are fine as well. Either way, replacing the fluid is a good idea because the fluid loves to absorb moisture and other contaminants. In my experience, replacing the brake fluid every 2-3 years does wonders for the reliability of the brake components. My 71 Corolla has the ORIGINAL parts and I've only had to replace rubber components a couple of times due to small leaks.

You'd be amazed at the crap that comes out when you bleed a brake system.

edit - to answer your question, in my experience if a rotor gets too hot, resurfacing it will never be as good as a new part, because the steel gets heated and weakened. Plus some cars just have weak components. My 87 Camry had very weak brakes, always warping the rotors. Toyota made a running change and upgraded the brakes, I put those newer components on my car and have not had any of the same problems.

[touringcamry]

Brake fluid flush should be done because the fluid will absorb moisture over time. When the brakes heat up the fluid, the moisture vaporizes and turns into a compressible gas. You don't want any gas in the brake lines because compression of that gas means reduced braking if you have it at all. My car got so bad that I was overshooting my target by some 15 ft or so slowing down from 55 MPH because I would keeping having to apply more and more pressure as I slowed down. Even with the pedal to the floor I couldn't lock up the wheels on a car with no ABS.

Brake fluid flush takes about 1 hour or so with a 1 man bleeder kit that costs about $10 available at most auto parts stores.

Basically you top of the reservoir, open up the valve furthest from the master cylinder (rear passenger side) attach the bleeder kit, and pump the brakes until new fluid comes out. Then repeat on the rear driver side, front passenger, and front driver, in that order. While doing this, you need to ensure that the reservoir doesn't get low and suck air. It should take you about 1 quart of fluid for the entire car.

To open the valve on the brakes, you need an 8 mm wrench.

[TRD VVTi]

Originally Posted by ilyaphd

Hello all, I have a 2003 Camry LE 4 cyl Auto. I am changing break pads and rotors and wondering whether to change brake fluid. The car has 47.5K miles on it. There is no problem with braking except i get pulsation of the pedal at high speeds. Rotors have been machined twice already to the point where they are too thin. Each time after machining, the pulsating pedal feeling was gone and returned. The guy who machined rotors claimed that they can be "bad metal" like layers of metal that come off and make the rotor "wobble" a bit enough to create pulsation. Do you guys agree with this nonsense? Anyway, I decided to go with Brembo rotors and good ceramic pads and do it myself. At this point, I wondered to change brake fluid. I am a DIY a bit so i can do simple things like brake change but never done brake fluid. Should I change it at all? How does one tell when it is no good? How would one do it if it needs changing? or I should not bother and pay $130 for dealership flush!

Thanks.

That bad metal crap sounds like BS to me. Usually it's caused by the lugnuts not being torqued properly.

You can buy strips at most autoparts stores that test the brake fluid. It should be nearly clear and not brown.

Changing the brake fluid at your car's age and mileage can certainly be beneficial. There aren't many failures related to lack of brake fluid maintenance but it will only help.

Simple gravity bleeding of the system will work perfectly. As the level goes down keep the master cylinder filled with fresh fluid. When the fluid coming out of the bleeders is fresh simply tighten the bleeders and top off the fluid.

[ilyaphd]

Thanks everyone for insightful answers. I never myself believed in "multi-layered" rotors BS either. Anyway, I hope Brembos will stand by their reputation. Here is a good question though, is brake fluid any brake fluid or one should really use authentic Toyota fluid because of some "secret ingredient" they put in to make it 4 times as expensive but really indistinguishable. Another question I wondered, how would I tell when the new fuild comes out meaning the old one has been all flushed out. Are they really of different color?

[LE05]

old brake fluid will be more yellowish in color and just in general looks dirtier. new brake fluid will be more clear. brake fluid is brake fluid... as long as you use the type specified by the manual. avoid mixing dot 3/4 with dot 5, dot 5 is silicon based and not compatible with dot 3/4.

[spoon059]

Whatever type of fluid Toyota recommends is fine. There is no benefit to name brand. It either meets specs or it doesn't. I recommend changing brake fluid every 2 years. It costs $5 in fluid, and $10 one time to buy a bleeder. That is cheaper then oil, and could potentially save your life.

[1996camry]

can someone write instructions how to flush brakes fluid? my car has 11 years and haven't flush brakes fluid..can someone write an instruction to do so?
thanks

[TRD VVTi]

Originally Posted by 1996camry

can someone write instructions how to flush brakes fluid? my car has 11 years and haven't flush brakes fluid..can someone write an instruction to do so?
thanks

It's best not to pump the pedal when flushing out old brake fluid. Gravity bleeding is actually more effective.

When there is an accumulation of debris in the master cylinder and you push it farther than it normally travels damage to the master cylinder could result. I've seen this happen several times. Just open the bleeders and let the fluid run out until it is clean.

That is also the recommended procedure by many high performance brake manufacturers including Stainless Steel Brakes (SSBC).

To see the difference in fluid colors, look in the bottle and compare it to the color of the fluid in the master cylinder. The master cylinder fluid will usually be much darker. If it's not darker, you probably don't need to change the fluid.

After you are done changing the fluid, throw the partial bottle of brake fluid away. Don't use it at a later date. It will accumulate moisture just like the fluid in the car. Brake fluid is cheap, always use a fresh bottle.

[ilyaphd]

Hello all, well the saga continues, I am happy to report that I managed to replace rotors and pads although, to remove the caliper bolts took a gargantuan effort but WD-40 helped. I did replace the brake fluid which was in a decent color i suppose (dark-yellow) but i have no idea how much water was in it. My brother in law helped when I realized that it is basically a TWO-MAN job! It is more acrobatic to do it by yourself. So get a partner! We pumped the pedal so that the fluid is out. The first time I did it I absent mindedly pumped a gas pedal by mistake I am glad i don't have a three pedal car otherwise i would be all confused. Anyway, thanks to everyone on this wonderful forum for assistance.

[twinklit]

Originally Posted by 71Corolla

My advise, flush it yourself, that way you know it will be done RIGHT. Get yourself a big bottle of brake fluid and bleed away. I like to do it the simple way, I use an old emission hose to go on the bleeder nipple and put it in a glass jar of fluid and slowly pump the brakes.

Other people like to use automated methods, which are fine as well. Either way, replacing the fluid is a good idea because the fluid loves to absorb moisture and other contaminants. In my experience, replacing the brake fluid every 2-3 years does wonders for the reliability of the brake components. My 71 Corolla has the ORIGINAL parts and I've only had to replace rubber components a couple of times due to small leaks.

You'd be amazed at the crap that comes out when you bleed a brake system.

edit - to answer your question, in my experience if a rotor gets too hot, resurfacing it will never be as good as a new part, because the steel gets heated and weakened. Plus some cars just have weak components. My 87 Camry had very weak brakes, always warping the rotors. Toyota made a running change and upgraded the brakes, I put those newer components on my car and have not had any of the same problems.

Does anyone know what inner diameter of tubing I should use to attach to the bleeder nipple when I'm bleeding my brake fluid from a 2003 Camry 4 cyclinder? I'm making a trip to the hardware store soon so I'm hoping to save a few bucks instead of buying the bleeder kit from the auto shop. Thank you in advance.

[the critic]

Originally Posted by twinklit

Does anyone know what inner diameter of tubing I should use to attach to the bleeder nipple when I'm bleeding my brake fluid from a 2003 Camry 4 cyclinder? I'm making a trip to the hardware store soon so I'm hoping to save a few bucks instead of buying the bleeder kit from the auto shop. Thank you in advance.

I think it's either 3/16 or 5/16. I want to say that it's 5/16, but I don't remember anymore.

[twinklit]

Originally Posted by ilyaphd

Hello all, well the saga continues, I am happy to report that I managed to replace rotors and pads although, to remove the caliper bolts took a gargantuan effort but WD-40 helped. I did replace the brake fluid which was in a decent color i suppose (dark-yellow) but i have no idea how much water was in it. My brother in law helped when I realized that it is basically a TWO-MAN job! It is more acrobatic to do it by yourself. So get a partner! We pumped the pedal so that the fluid is out. The first time I did it I absent mindedly pumped a gas pedal by mistake I am glad i don't have a three pedal car otherwise i would be all confused. Anyway, thanks to everyone on this wonderful forum for assistance.

I was only able to locate the bleed valves on my 2 front disc brake caliper housings, not the one in the rear drums so as a result I performed a flush through only the 2 front disc brakes.......I could not for the life of me locate the valves on the rear drum brakes, should they be there? Is it bad that I performed the flush via the 2 front wheels only? I'm sure that the new fluid in the system is better than what was previously in there, but probably not 100% new. Please any input would help. By the way I used the 2 person method, used a plastic clear tubing from home depot with 1/4" inner diameter which I attached to empty water bottles to collect the old fluid using masking tape and instead of lifting the car with jacks, I just rode my right wheels on the curb so I can see better. THere are some pretty good videos on youtube about bleeding/flushing brake fluid.

[gdanaher]

Originally Posted by twinklit

I was only able to locate the bleed valves on my 2 front disc brake caliper housings, not the one in the rear drums so as a result I performed a flush through only the 2 front disc brakes.......I could not for the life of me locate the valves on the rear drum brakes, should they be there? Is it bad that I performed the flush via the 2 front wheels only? I'm sure that the new fluid in the system is better than what was previously in there, but probably not 100% new. Please any input would help. By the way I used the 2 person method, used a plastic clear tubing from home depot with 1/4" inner diameter which I attached to empty water bottles to collect the old fluid using masking tape and instead of lifting the car with jacks, I just rode my right wheels on the curb so I can see better. THere are some pretty good videos on youtube about bleeding/flushing brake fluid.

It's fortunate that they were not venomous snakes. The bleeder valve is at the top in the 12 o'clock position on the back side of course. For you it might be easier to pull a wheel off so you can see in from that direction. If you go to the trouble of doing the front circuits then you should take the ime to do the rear. There is more fluid involved in cleaning them anyway.

[Gellenole]

if you upgrade your brakelines think it'll be beneficial to upgrade your brakefluid as well? from dot3 to dot4 due to the boiling point? I had a friend suggest it, but I was thinking, since there's no real upgrade, just from rubber tubing to the stainless-steel ones, there's no real need for it ehh? if there is I would go for it, but I still don't see the point.

am I right or wrong on this point?