air/fuel sensor replacement

[jpinkard]

My malfunction indicator light came on and I took my 2004 Camry to dealer for service. I had to replace an air/fuel sensor and they had to flash the computer, total repair cost $398. They said there is another air/fuel sensor that is subject to going bad in future and I would incur cost again to replace. There are a bunch of different sensors that can trigger the MIL and I understand some are prone to wear out. I have owned Toyotas for 30+ years with excellent reliability. It sounds like those days are past with this type of system with its inevitable repairs and exhorbitant cost.

Any suggestions or words of wisdom? Thanks

JP

[Luna2]

Originally Posted by jpinkard

My malfunction indicator light came on and I took my 2004 Camry to dealer for service. I had to replace an air/fuel sensor and they had to flash the computer, total repair cost $398. They said there is another air/fuel sensor that is subject to going bad in future and I would incur cost again to replace. There are a bunch of different sensors that can trigger the MIL and I understand some are prone to wear out. I have owned Toyotas for 30+ years with excellent reliability. It sounds like those days are past with this type of system with its inevitable repairs and exhorbitant cost.

Any suggestions or words of wisdom? Thanks

JP

You have your receipt, check to see what it says for the air/fuel sensor.
It is probably the O2 sensor. Look for the part at the NAPA/or ether parts source, web site, for your year and engine.

The "flash" was probably just to "reset" the engine malfunction light. Yes there is another O2 sensor after the converter, in the tail pipe.

Did the dealer tell you the code? You can look it up on the web for your vehicle.
Some shops do the reset as a part of the repair, ~$50 to read and reset the computer.

[TRD VVTi]

Reflashing isn't "resetting" the computer. Reflashing is reprogramming.

Oxygen sensors wear out. They always have, and probably always will. They live in the harsh environment of the exhaust system...

Were you at Town & Country or Scott Clark's? Who was your advisor?

EDIT: As cars become more complex every year, repairs have become much more expensive. On the flip side of the coin, maintenance is actually less.

[jpinkard]

Thanks. Scott Clark. Why would it be necessary to reprogram the computer when replacing a sensor? I have been in computer field for 40 years and that seems questionable.

JP

[JSM1284]

Unless they put a sticker under your hood that shows the computer has been "Flashed" with the latest software, They probably just called it "Flash" to scan and check codes for the faild sensor.

[somick]

$398 is very reasonable for a dealer. Some people unfortunately will buy whatever dealer will tell them!!!

Lots of automotive stores read codes for free. That what I would do before paying dealer a dime.

Sorry for your problems,

Sam

[Camry5genrocks]

Front 0xygen sensor should cost no more than 70 dollars for an aftermarket one. The OEM Oxygen sensor will retail in the neighborhood of 105 dollars. You should not have paid more than 150-175 dollars.
Either learn how to do it yourself or take it to a different place. Sorry to hear about your troubles. Good luck next time.

[JSM1284]

Originally Posted by Camry5genrocks

Front 0xygen sensor should cost no more than 70 dollars for an aftermarket one. The OEM Oxygen sensor will retail in the neighborhood of 105 dollars. You should not have paid more than 150-175 dollars.
Either learn how to do it yourself or take it to a different place. Sorry to hear about your troubles. Good luck next time.

We are talking Air/Fuel ratio sensors, Not Oxygen sensors. he paid the reasonable going rate.

[TRD VVTi]

Originally Posted by JSM1284

We are talking Air/Fuel ratio sensors, Not Oxygen sensors. he paid the reasonable going rate.

Actually, air/fuel ratio sensors ARE oxygen sensors...

http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h37.pdf

[TRD VVTi]

Originally Posted by jpinkard

Thanks. Scott Clark. Why would it be necessary to reprogram the computer when replacing a sensor? I have been in computer field for 40 years and that seems questionable.

JP

I currently don't have access to TSB's for any ECU programming updates. Sometimes the ECU programmed values are found to be incorrect after a vehicle deteriorates. Many things degrade over time. For example, spark plugs, fuel injector pattern, compression, timing chain integrety, etc. If the programming is set properly allow for that, a reflash can sometimes help with performance of the vehicle or keep the MIL (Malfunction Indicator Light/check engine light) from coming on in a normal situation.

Chrysler had serious PCM/ECU programming problems due to spark plug erosion and normal performance deterioration when they first came out with OBD II.

Next time you are at Scott Clark, slap Bobby Dills (Service Advisor) across the face for me.

[JSM1284]

Originally Posted by TRD VVTi

Actually, air/fuel ratio sensors ARE oxygen sensors...

http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h37.pdf

Wrong, Read Page 6 of your attached PDF

[tiswicked]

Oh no, air/fuel ratio sensor and oxygen sensor topic. this seems like another one of those touchy topics.

[Qslim]

I don't see what's so touchy about it. Oxygen sensors and A/F ratio sensors measure the same thing, but they are constructed differently, operate differently, can't be tested the same, and their circuitry is completely different as well.

[Camry5genrocks]

I thought the OP wasn't sure if it was the oxygen sensor or the air fuel ratio sensor. Still Denso air fuel sensor retails for 120 plus 13 for shipping at ebay for a total of 133 dollars. I am pretty sure, you can find it somewhere else for cheaper.
The air fuel ratio sensor looks like an oxygen sensor to me, but I am not an expert at telling which is which.
.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/02-03-04-Toyota-Camry-Solara-Air-Fuel-Ratio-Sensor-2-4L_W0QQitemZ120167041802QQcmdZViewItem

What's reasonable about charging 267 dollars for labor to install the sensor. For an experienced mech, the job should not take more than 20 minutes. I doubt that dealership are paying $133 for the sensor, more like fifty dollars for the part.

Just my personal opinion, I think it is another story of a customer being abused by the dealership.

[TRD VVTi]

Originally Posted by JSM1284

Wrong, Read Page 6 of your attached PDF

As usual it's a matter of finding one little thing to make your point, reading the entire text isn't nearly as convincing.

An air fuel sensor is a wide range O2 sensor. Maybe you've heard of them in the performance/tuning arena. Maybe not.

Read the entire article.