A little help please

[windoor]

I have a 2004 Camry Se 2.4 with about 165K on it.
A check engine light comes on, so I take it to a local shop to have a look

I’m told the front catalytic is bad and needs to be replaced. I’m not happy with the price quoted, and being somewhat handy when it comes to cars I decide on replacing it myself.

The problem is I can’t find the part. Looks like he might be talking about a pre cat, but I can’t find that either. Does this car have one? Looks like something behind the heat shield, but I don’t want to take things apart unless I have the replacement needed.

Can someone here point me in the right direction please?

Regards,

Windoor

[JSM1284]

Verify the need for the repair. What are the trouble codes pulled from the car? It could just be an A/F or Oxygen sensor, Even just a small exhaust leak.

If I told you your brake drum was shot and you needed a Transmission, would you be buying them?

[windoor]

Originally Posted by JSM1284

Verify the need for the repair. What are the trouble codes pulled from the car? It could just be an A/F or Oxygen sensor, Even just a small exhaust leak.

Thanks for the reply. I can't remeber exactly but something about bank 1 etc.

To add a little more information. Shortly after a spark plug change it developed a miss on number one cylinder. At the time it was the only car I had to drive and in the middle of a work week.

I continued to driive the car ( I travel about a 1K per week) the rest of the week before I was able to fix the problem. I replaced the coil for that cylinder. (burned the insulator) That fixed the mis-fire, but no doubt a lot of raw fuel was going through the exhaust.

So I don't fine it to hard to believe I hurt the cat. The question is which one? Are there two? Does it have a pre cat? Where to buy one?

Many questions and I thank you for any information you can give me. Google was not much help.

Reagards,

Windoor

[JSM1284]

The cat is a part of the Exhaust manifold(Under that heat shield).

The dealer list price is about $370

If you could get the car in to a local part store (Autozone) and have them scan it again and post the code that was found, we may be able to narrow it down to something else rather than a cat.

[windoor]

Originally Posted by JSM1284

The cat is a part of the Exhaust manifold(Under that heat shield).

The dealer list price is about $370

If you could get the car in to a local part store (Autozone) and have them scan it again and post the code that was found, we may be able to narrow it down to something else rather than a cat.

A Auto zone right down the street so I can get it scanned. My daughter is now driving it back and forth to work. Maybe I can get her to stop by after work. State inspection every year in Pa, so I'll need to do something fairly soon.

I traded (uhh dropped off) the 97 Camry last spring for a 2007 model) It had 312K miles on it and never in the shop. Just routine maitenance. Ran great, but was hit and wasn't worth fixing. So she got this one. I got a new one. Gotta love them Camrys.

Thanks for your help, I'll post the code as soon as I get it.

Regards,

Windoor

[windoor]

Just got back from AutoZone.
Here’s the readout:


Trouble shooting PO420
Catalyst efficiency Low-bank 1
Explanation: The oxygen sensors monitor the catalytic converters ability to store oxygen.

The PCM has determined that the catalyst system efficiency for bank 1 is below the threshold for the current operating conditions. (Bank 1 identifies the location of cylinder #1 while bank 2 identifies the cylinder on the opposite bank)

Probable causes:
1) Catalytic converter defective (possibly due to #2, #3, or #4)
2) Engine misfire or running condition
3) Large Vacuum leak
4) Engine oil leakage into exhaust-valve guide seals, piston rings

So do I replace the exhaust manifold with Pre-cat?

I’d hate to spend $400 and find it does not fix the problem.

Regards,

Windoor.

[njerald]

That's what troubleshooting and diagnosis is for.

Dealer can pinpoint the problem systematically using their Intelligent Tester.

Read you Service Manual for the complete procedure and then get your checkbook out.

[JSM1284]

Is your engine a PZEV or Non-PZEV?

[windoor]

I don’t know what PZEC is.
This may help.

On B Pillar

VIN # 4T1BE32K04U319970
Made in Kentucky 2/04
C/TR: 202/FC14 ACV3D-CEPSKA
A/TM –01A/V241C

Regards,

Windoor

[daveart]

i can help if i remember correct(i make shure tommorow)i think there is a tsb bulitin on this yes the cat in the front manifold needs to be replaced but you may also need to recalibrate the ecu,give me as much details you can year model (le,ce)4 or 6 cyl and even the vin,and code.
oh you have it already,

[windoor]

Originally Posted by njerald

That's what troubleshooting and diagnosis is for.

Dealer can pinpoint the problem systematically using their Intelligent Tester.

Read you Service Manual for the complete procedure and then get your checkbook out.

I don’t own a service manual. I haven’t turned wrenches for a living since 1972. Pre smog, Pre computers, and pre injection.

I did run a constant flow injection on BB Chevy in the late 80’s and know my way around both small and BB racing engines more than most.

Raced semi-pro during that time and literally wrote the book on “ How to win at bracket racing”

I’d be glad to send you a copy in pdf format if interested.

As to my checkbook, I always have a hard time paying someone for something I can do myself. I already paid for one diagnostic and apparently did not get what I paid for as the service manager stated the front converter needs to be replaced and as far as I can tell this car does not have one Looks like he might be referring to a pre-cat at the manifold..

I would rather rely on some of the more knowledgeable members here.

Regards,

windoor

[daveart]

yes you need to replace the manifold and recalibrate the ecu,the tsb number is 2053,the best bet i can tell you is shop around for one,i dont know where hear in canada i think its dealer only--i could be wrong,but bring it to the dealer its going to get there anyways,a local garage will have to take it there to get it calibrated as the toyota diagnostic tech steam is the only way,they need to get the programe from the internet then put it in the car,i would send a copy of the tsb but it is in acrobat and i dont know how to post it

[JSM1284]

Under your hood you will have an Engine info sticker, It will state weather your car is a PZEV(Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle) or not.

[JSM1284]

Here are the diagnostic precedures depending on if its PZEV or not:

Non PZEV:
DTC P0420 CATALYST SYSTEM EFFICIENCY BELOW THRESHOLD (BANK 1)

MONITOR DESCRIPTION



DTC Detection Condition
Monitor Strategy
Typical Enabling Conditions
Typical Malfunction Thresholds
Monitor Result (Mode 06)
The ECM uses sensors mounted before and after the three-way catalyst (TWC) to monitor its' efficiency. The first sensor, an Air Fuel ratio (A/F) sensor, sends pre-catalyst A/F ratio information to the ECM. The second
sensor, a heated oxygen sensor (O2S), sends post-catalyst information to the ECM. The ECM compares these two signals to judge the efficiency of the catalyst and the catalyst's ability to store oxygen. During normal operation, the TWC stores and releases oxygen as needed. The capacity to store oxygen results in a low variation in the post-TWC exhaust stream as shown.

If the catalyst is functioning normally, the waveform of the heated oxygen sensor slowly switches between RICH and LEAN. If the catalyst is deteriorated, the waveform will alternate frequently between RICH and LEAN. As the catalyst efficiency degrades, its ability to store oxygen is reduced and the catalyst output becomes more variable. When running the monitor, the ECM compares sensor 1 signals (A/F sensor) over a specific amount of time to determine catalyst efficiency. The ECM begins by calculating the signal length for both sensors (for the rear oxygen sensor, the ECM uses the output voltage signal length). If the oxygen sensor output voltage signal length is greater than the threshold (threshold is calculated based on the A/F sensor signal length), the ECM concludes that the catalyst is malfunctioning. The ECM will turn on the MIL and a DTC will be set.

HINT:

• Sensor 1 refers to the sensor closest to the engine assembly.
• Sensor 2 refers to the sensor farthest away from the engine assembly.

CONDITIONING A/F SENSOR AND HEATED OXYGEN SENSOR FOR TESTING

1. Connect the the hand-held tester or OBD II scan tool to the DLC3.
2. Start the engine and warm it up with all the accessories switched OFF until the Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) is stable.
3. Run the engine at 2,500 to 3,000 rpm for about 3 minutes .
4. When alternating the engine between 3,000 rpm for 2 seconds and 2,000 rpm for 2 seconds , check the waveform of the oxygen sensor (bank 1 sensor 2).

Step 1
Step 2 - 4
INSPECTION PROCEDURE

HINT: Read freeze frame data using the hand-held tester or the OBD II scan tool. Freeze frame data records the engine conditions when a malfunction is detected. When troubleshooting, freeze frame data can help determine if the vehicle was running or stopped, if the engine was warmed up or not, if the air-fuel ratio was lean or rich, and other data from the time the malfunction occurred.

HINT:
Hand held tester only:

• The following procedure enables the technician to identify a trouble area if malfunction in front A/F sensor or rear heated oxygen sensors other than the catalyst converter, or the malfunction that indicates the actual air fuel ratio extremely RICH or LEAN.

It is possible the malfunctioning area can be found using the ACTIVE TEST A/F CONTROL operation. The A/F CONTROL operation can determine if the A/F sensor, heated oxygen sensor or other potential trouble areas are malfunctioning or not.

1. Perform the ACTIVE TEST A/F CONTROL operation. HINT: The A/F CONTROL operation lowers the injection volume 12.5 % or increases the injection volume 25 %.

• 1. Connect the hand held tester to the DLC3 on the vehicle.
  2. Turn the ignition switch ON.
  3. Warm up the engine by running the engine speed at 2,500 rpm for approximately 90 seconds .
  4. Enter the following menus: DIAGNOSIS / ENHANCED OBD II / ACTIVE TEST / A/F CONTROL.
  5. Perform the A/F CONTROL operation with the engine idle (press the right or left button). Result: Heated oxygen sensor reacts in accordance with increase and decrease of injection volume +25 % -> rich output: More than 0.5 V 12.5 % -> lean output: Less than 0.4 V

WITH PZEV:

DTC P0420 CATALYST SYSTEM EFFICIENCY BELOW THRESHOLD (BANK 1)

CIRCUIT DESCRIPTION


DTC Detection Condition
Monitor Strategy
Typical Enabling Conditions
Typical Malfunction Thresholds
Monitor Result (Mode 06)
The ECM uses the air-fuel ratio (A/F) sensor and the heated oxygen sensor 2 to detect deterioration in the front catalyst.

In order to detect deterioration in the front catalyst, the ECM calculates Oxygen Storage Capacity (OSC) in the catalyst based on voltage output of the heated oxygen sensor 2 while performing the "active air-fuel ratio control" instead of the conventional detecting method which uses the locus ratio.

The OSC is an indication value of the catalyst oxygen storage capacity and is used for representing how much the catalyst can store oxygen. When the vehicle is driving with a warm engine, the "active air-fuel ratio control" is performed for approximately 15 to 20 seconds . When it is performed, the air-fuel ratio is forcibly regulated to go LEAN or RICH by the ECM, and if a RICH and LEAN cycle of the heated oxygen sensor 2 is long, the OSC will become greater, and greater OSC basically capability of the catalyst are mutually related, the ECM judges if the catalyst has deteriorated based on the calculated OSC value.

CONFIRMATION DRIVING PATTERN FOR READINESS MONITOR

PURPOSE



HINT: Performing this confirmation pattern will activate the front catalyst monitoring by the ECM. This is very useful for verifying the completion of a repair.

1. Clear the DTCs.

• 1. Disconnect the battery terminal or remove the EFI and ETCS fuses for 60 seconds or more.

1. Connect the hand-held tester to the DLC3.
2. Enter the following menus: DIAGNOSIS / CARB OBD II / READINESS TESTS and check that CAT EVAL is INCMPL (incomplete).
3. Drive the vehicle according to the confirmation driving pattern. Note the state of the Readiness Tests. They will change to COMPL (complete) as the CAT evaluation monitors operate.
4. Enter the following menus: DIAGNOSIS / ENHANCED OBD II / DTC INFO / PENDING CODES and check if any DTC (any pending code) is set. If the READINESS CODE of "CAT EVAL" was "INCMPL" and any DTC (include pending codes) was not set, extend the driving time. NOTE: If you do not have the hand-held tester, perform again the same confirmation driving pattern after turning off the ignition switch upon finishing the first confirmation driving pattern.

CONDITIONING THE A/F SENSOR AND HEATED OXYGEN SENSOR 2 FOR TESTING



HINT: Follow this engine rpm and timing pattern to properly activate and condition these sensors prior to the observation of their output waveforms.

1. Connect the hand-held tester or the OBD II scan tool to the DLC3.
2. Start the engine and warm it up with all the accessories switched OFF until the coolant temperature is stable.
3. Run the engine at 2,500 to 3,000 rpm for about 3 minutes .
4. When running the engine at 3,000 rpm for 2 seconds and 2,000 rpm for 2 seconds , check the waveforms of the A/F sensor and heated oxygen sensor 2.

HINT: If either output of the A/F sensor and the heated oxygen sensor 2 does not fluctuate or has noise, the sensor may be malfunctioning.
If voltage outputs of both the sensors remain at LEAN or RICH, the air-fuel ratio may be extremely LEAN or RICH. In such case, perform the following A/F CONTROL in ACTIVE TEST with the hand-held tester. If the catalyst has deteriorated, the voltage output of the heated oxygen sensor 2 (located after the front catalyst) fluctuates up and down extensively even under normal driving ("active air-fuel ratio control" is not performed).

PERFORM A/F CONTROL

HINT:
Hand-held tester only:
Narrowing down the trouble area is possible by performing the "A/F CONTROL" ACTIVE TEST (A/F sensor, heated oxygen sensor 2 or other trouble areas can be distinguished).

1. Perform ACTIVE TEST using the hand-held tester (A/F CONTROL). HINT: "A/F CONTROL" is an ACTIVE TEST which changes the injection volume -12.5 % or +25 %.

• 1. Connect the hand-held tester to the DLC3 on the vehicle.
  2. Turn the ignition switch ON.
  3. Warm up the engine by running the engine at 2,500 rpm for approximately 90 seconds .
  4. Enter the following menus: DIAGNOSIS / ENHANCED OBD II / ACTIVE TEST / A/F CONTROL.
  5. Perform "A/F CONTROL" with the engine in an idle condition (press the right or left button). Result: A/F sensor reacts in accordance with increase and decrease of injection volume: +25 % -> rich output: Less than 3.0 V -12.5 % -> lean output: More than 3.35 V Heated oxygen sensor 2 reacts in accordance with increase and decrease of injection volume: +25 % -> rich output: More than 0.55 V -12.5 % -> lean output: Less than 0.4 V

NOTE: There is a few seconds delay in the A/F sensor output and there is about 20 seconds delay in the heated oxygen sensor 2 output.

The following A/F CONTROL procedure enables to technician to check and graph the voltage outputs of both the A/F Sensor and Heated Oxygen Sensor 2.

For displaying the graph indication, enter "DIAGNOSIS / ENHANCED OBD II / ACTIVE TEST / A/F CONTROL / USER DATA", then select "AFS B1S1 and O2S B1S2" by pressing "YES" button and push "ENTER" button before pressing "F4" button.

Step 1 - 4

[njerald]

He doesn't want the manuals, procedure, diagrams, etc..

He wants a 100% guarantee internet diagnosis!!!!!!!!