Changing Brakes '07 Camry

[crabjoe]

1st let me say, do the rear brakes is a sinch!

With that said, has anyone else looked at there brakes?

I was changing the air filter when I noticed that my brake fluid was a bit low. With that I figured I'd better replace my brake pads.

I purchased Bendix CT-3 for the front and rear. They came in last week so I wanted to get them done today before the old pads were gone. I hate hearing that metal on metal when the pads are worn.

Ok... SO I've got my pads and tools ready and I pull the front brakes. To my surprise, they weren't worn much. Maybe 35-40% worn. It was a little shocking because I've got 45K miles on my '07 Camry and usually the fronts are the 1st to go on most vehicles. I didn't change them.

I then looked at the rears. They were worn.. I might have 10% left on those, so I change them. Man were the rear brakes a snap to do. All I needed was a 14mm socket wrench and my trusty C-clamp.

Took off 2 14mm bolts holding the caliper, compressed the caliper back in with my C-clamp. Replaced the pad holding clips and pads. Put some anti-squeak on. Put the calipers back on. Then the next side.

Now the question. For those of you that have looked at your brakes, did you notice the rears wearing faster then the fronts??? I'm not to worried about it because I've noticed this on my Dodge Pickup, but the Pickup wore fairly even all around. With it, it was more like 90% rear worn and 80% front worn.

I just wanted your thoughts on it... I guess, next time I do the rears, I'll have to do the fronts. For now, I'm Kosher with just the rears.

[the critic]

It's normal for the rear pads to where faster than the fronts on many 4-wheel disc setups in the newer cars. Not sure why, but it could be because the brake bias has been adjusted. The rear pads also start out thinner and have a less aggressive material, so that doesn't help either.

Doesn't the caliper piston need to be turned as it's being pushed in? At least that's my experience with many rear calipers.

If you used the RTV like anti-squeal, that is the WRONG product. That should only be used on the backs of pads that do not contain ANY type of integrated, detachable, or one-piece backing plate/shim (i.e. Wagner ThermoQuiet). Using that anti-squeal product on pads that contain shims can cause shim separation. Only synthetic brake caliper grease such as Permatex synthetic caliper or ceramic caliper grease should be used on shimmed pads, pad support plates and the bores/slide pins.

I also recommend resurfacing the rotors, but it isn't 100% necessary. Be sure to do the pad bed-in method that Bendix recommends on their website. It's 30 stops from 30 mph, with a 30 second cool down in between each one.

[coontai]

Was there not a tsb on this issue (rears wearing out too fast)?

[crabjoe]

Originally Posted by the critic

It's normal for the rear pads to where faster than the fronts on many 4-wheel disc setups in the newer cars. Not sure why, but it could be because the brake bias has been adjusted. The rear pads also start out thinner and have a less aggressive material, so that doesn't help either.

Doesn't the caliper piston need to be turned as it's being pushed in? At least that's my experience with many rear calipers.

If you used the RTV like anti-squeal, that is the WRONG product. That should only be used on the backs of pads that do not contain ANY type of integrated, detachable, or one-piece backing plate/shim (i.e. Wagner ThermoQuiet). Using that anti-squeal product on pads that contain shims can cause shim separation. Only synthetic brake caliper grease such as Permatex synthetic caliper or ceramic caliper grease should be used on shimmed pads, pad support plates and the bores/slide pins.

I also recommend resurfacing the rotors, but it isn't 100% necessary. Be sure to do the pad bed-in method that Bendix recommends on their website. It's 30 stops from 30 mph, with a 30 second cool down in between each one.

You don't need to spin the calipers in for the emergency brakes, like some older setups. I've found most new setups use a separate brake shoe for the emergency braking. It makes it way easy to just do the pads because it make the rear setup like the front.

As for the anti-squeak grease. I used it only on the pads. It's the lube that came with the pads.

On good rotors, I never get them resurfaced. The reason is because I've had rotors warp quickly after having them turned. Since I stopped having it done, I haven't had a problem with warped rotors.

[Yazovets]

Resurfacing is a good thing for older rotors, indeed! I had my front rotors re-surfaced at 30000km because I was having some vibration when applying light brake pressure at higher speeds. This vibration went away!

According to my mechanic, the brakes still have life in them. I'll ask him about it again in late spring or something.

Does Toyota post any recommended mileage for changing the front and/or rear brakes?

[w203]

no, rears should not be worn faster than fronts...

the rotors should be resurfaced for every 2 pad changes

if changing pads for a floating caliper is a sinch, you should try changing pads for a fixed caliper. all you gotta do is take out some pins and you're done

[smilepak]

Originally Posted by coontai

Was there not a tsb on this issue (rears wearing out too fast)?

Actually there is. I just had it apply on my car.

Each front and back wearing out around 15k miles.

[crabjoe]

Originally Posted by smilepak

Actually there is. I just had it apply on my car.

Each front and back wearing out around 15k miles.

Got the TSB or a number I can reference? I'd like to have my brakes wear evenly between front and back.

Thanks.

[crabjoe]

Ok.. .I found an explanation on why the rear brakes may wear faster then the fronts on the Camry. What I found to be the cause is the Electronic Brake-force Distribution (EBD).

What EBD does is distributes braking force evenly to all 4 wheels. And if youe a light braker, this will cause more wear on the rears. Why is that?? It's because the the braking force is the same as the front, but the rear brakes are smaller. Smaller area with the same force causes faster wear.

Now if your foot is heavy on the brakes, you'll get more even wear or faster front pad wear. The reason is because of way EBD works. When braking heavy, the system puts more force on the front brakes.

So my conclusion is this. For light brakers that want more even wear, you'll either need to go to a harder rear pad or softer front pads since it seems the factory setup is for hard braking situations.

I hope this info helps any other that find that their rear brakes wear faster then the fronts.

[coontai]

wow. I'm not questioning your answer but 15k for a brake job seems way too short for me. My moms 99 4runner with 95k on it is this on the Original drums (never turned) and shoes in the back and original rotors up front (never turned).

[TRD VVTi]

Originally Posted by crabjoe

Ok.. .I found an explanation on why the rear brakes may wear faster then the fronts on the Camry. What I found to be the cause is the Electronic Brake-force Distribution (EBD).

What EBD does is distributes braking force evenly to all 4 wheels. And if youe a light braker, this will cause more wear on the rears. Why is that?? It's because the the braking force is the same as the front, but the rear brakes are smaller. Smaller area with the same force causes faster wear.

Now if your foot is heavy on the brakes, you'll get more even wear or faster front pad wear. The reason is because of way EBD works. When braking heavy, the system puts more force on the front brakes.

So my conclusion is this. For light brakers that want more even wear, you'll either need to go to a harder rear pad or softer front pads since it seems the factory setup is for hard braking situations.

I hope this info helps any other that find that their rear brakes wear faster then the fronts.

This also occurs on cars without EBD. The rear caliper piston(s) are much smaller in the rear than on the front. Slight pedal pressure allows the rears to move much quicker because it's much easier to displace the smaller piston(s) in the rear under light braking.

Originally Posted by coontai

wow. I'm not questioning your answer but 15k for a brake job seems way too short for me. My moms 99 4runner with 95k on it is this on the Original drums (never turned) and shoes in the back and original rotors up front (never turned).

Rear drums are a completely different story. You Mom's rear brakes would probably have worn out much faster if they were regularly cleaned and adjusted. Self adjusting rear drum brakes usually don't self adjust very well.

[w203]

Originally Posted by crabjoe

Ok.. .I found an explanation on why the rear brakes may wear faster then the fronts on the Camry. What I found to be the cause is the Electronic Brake-force Distribution (EBD).

What EBD does is distributes braking force evenly to all 4 wheels. And if youe a light braker, this will cause more wear on the rears. Why is that?? It's because the the braking force is the same as the front, but the rear brakes are smaller. Smaller area with the same force causes faster wear.

Now if your foot is heavy on the brakes, you'll get more even wear or faster front pad wear. The reason is because of way EBD works. When braking heavy, the system puts more force on the front brakes.

So my conclusion is this. For light brakers that want more even wear, you'll either need to go to a harder rear pad or softer front pads since it seems the factory setup is for hard braking situations.

I hope this info helps any other that find that their rear brakes wear faster then the fronts.

how reputable is your source on this?

you brake lightly so you use less pad material, you brake harder so you use more brake material from the front. more pad material from the front....

brake bias always have more force going to the front of the vehicle in most if not all passenger cars, regardless of lighting braking or heavy braking

[TRD VVTi]

Originally Posted by w203

how reputable is your source on this?

you brake lightly so you use less pad material, you brake harder so you use more brake material from the front. more pad material from the front....

brake bias always have more force going to the front of the vehicle in most if not all passenger cars, regardless of lighting braking or heavy braking

That's not true. A proportioning valve will have greater effect under higher pressures.

It takes less force/pressure to move a smaller object/displace a smaller amount of brake fluid.

[njerald]

Originally Posted by crabjoe

Ok.. .I found an explanation on why the rear brakes may wear faster then the fronts on the Camry. What I found to be the cause is the Electronic Brake-force Distribution (EBD).

What EBD does is distributes braking force evenly to all 4 wheels. And if youe a light braker, this will cause more wear on the rears. Why is that?? It's because the the braking force is the same as the front, but the rear brakes are smaller. Smaller area with the same force causes faster wear.

Now if your foot is heavy on the brakes, you'll get more even wear or faster front pad wear. The reason is because of way EBD works. When braking heavy, the system puts more force on the front brakes.

So my conclusion is this. For light brakers that want more even wear, you'll either need to go to a harder rear pad or softer front pads since it seems the factory setup is for hard braking situations.

I hope this info helps any other that find that their rear brakes wear faster then the fronts.

EBD does not distribute braking force evenly to all 4 wheels.

"Based on the signals received from the 4 wheel speed sensors, the skid control ECU calculates each wheel speed and deceleration, and checks wheel slipping conditions. And according to the slipping condition, the skid control ECU controls the pressure holding valve and pressure reduction valve in order to adjust the fluid pressure of the each wheel cylinder in the following 3 modes: pressure reduction, pressure holding, and pressure increase modes."

[MunkyPuke]

Originally Posted by crabjoe

Got the TSB or a number I can reference? I'd like to have my brakes wear evenly between front and back.

Thanks.

Anyone know the TSB # for this?