2007 SE Vs 2007 TLS...Cant make up my mind..

[Tobeit]

I think we all agree on the XLE seats - not all that great. Leather is flimsy and my cornering ability is not limited by the car itself (I have TRD springs and a strut bar) but by me trying to hold on for dear live to not slide or fall out of the seat . For a 30k MSRP car, I hoped these are better. I think that will be one of my major mod's once they are worn enough to justify custom leather seats.

[thoots]

Well, let me dig into this:

Originally Posted by the critic

1. Transmissions problems are rare with the current generation TL or any Honda beginning with the 2004 model year. There have been a few failures, but there isn't any consistent pattern of failures like there was with the 99-03 models. I have formed this opinion based on what I see on the forums and from the numerous Honda/Acura technicians that I speak with on a regular basis.

Huh? Your current-generation TL "problems" forum is FULL of transmission problems, failing transmissions, and dead transmissions.

As for the technical issues, you may well know more than I do. But I can sure go into your forum and count all the threads about major transmission problems.

Originally Posted by the critic

2. Build quality issues did exist with the early 3rd generation TLs, particularly in the 04 and 05 model years, but I hear of very few complaints with the later models. Acura has identified the issues and has implemented production changes to address the problems.

Oh, really? How about this one:

http://tl.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179133

"3 month old 08 with leather wear"

"I just got my TL in January. I just noticed that there is already some spots on the drivers side lumbar area that are peeling off from wear of getting in and out of the car. If I bring this to Acura will they fix it without a problem? I have had cars that have over 100,000 miles and the leather was fine. This has really shocked me."

This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. This is the current model year. Did you see my "leather" picture, above? Let me post it again:



Your forum is full of stuff like this: Interior parts that won't stand up to even just a few months of normal usage. I noticed your swipe at the Camry XLE leather, so please show me anything like this, in words or pictures, in regards to any 6th-generation Camry leather seat. Go ahead. I'll wait right here.

Originally Posted by the critic

3. As for the suspension, engine, etc problems, I really don't hear about them. There are always a few individuals who complain, but the important thing is that I am not seeing any consistent pattern. A consistent pattern is what I (and others) should be looking for, not random complaints as there will always be a few problem cars.

Hmmm. I guess you must have missed the 2007 TL-S suspension problem thread with SEVEN HUNDRED MESSAGES. Or the one about the 2007 TL-S valve chatter, with nearly EIGHT HUNDRED AND FIFTY messages. And so on. Must be "random" stuff to you, eh? And there's got to be at least a few hundred threads about transmission problems. That sure doesn't sound like "random" or "fixed" to me!

At any rate, I'm not talking about random complaints, either. I'm adding my own Honda Corporation experience to what I'm seeing in the current generation TL, and seeing interior problems that are absolutely, entirely typical to what I've seen personally and heard reports about over the past few years.

Originally Posted by the critic

4. As for the leather quality, I guess it's subjective. The '07 XLE that I sat in had some of the worst leather that I had seen in a long time. The '08 Accord was much better. The SE might be better though.

So, what did you find so bad about the XLE leather? I find the Camry leather to be strong and supple, and if you look at just about any car from the past two Camry generations, I believe you'll have a hard time finding the kind of leather damage that your three-month 08 TL owner was talking about.

In the end, you are essentially recommending that people should ignore the nearly 30,000 messages in your current-generation TL "problems" forum, and take your word that everything is fine and dandy. "Don't worry, be happy!"

I'm sorry, but I can't make that same recommendation. I would recommend that people go right to the source -- to TL owners who have been having problems with their cars. You've got plenty of information there that, at least from my perspective, would chase people far, far away from a TL. Not that I'm particularly picking on the TL -- I would recommend that people do the same thing in regards to ANY vehicle they might consider purchasing.

My perspective remains absolutely unchanged. I'll never touch another Honda product, so long as I live. And I sure as hell wouldn't recommend that anyone "try their luck" to see if they might avoid the abysmal build quality I found in my last one.

[cp44]

i agree with thoots, my 98 accord's transmission slips like an animal, my friends 00 accord transmission died at 70k miles and had to get it replaced. It was so bad we drove it to South Carolina all of a sudden the car was going 5 mph with my foot pressed all the way down on the gas. once it hit forth gear it started to move, the 0-60 was like 3 mins. I was about to do a fred flntstone and use my feet to accelerate. It was scary driving like that on I95. This other girl i know has an 04 accord ex with 30k miles and her transmission was slipping too. You would have to really convince me to buy a Honda again.

Ever since I bought my Camry Ive been happy ever since.

[the critic]

Originally Posted by thoots

Huh? Your current-generation TL "problems" forum is FULL of transmission problems, failing transmissions, and dead transmissions.

As for the technical issues, you may well know more than I do. But I can sure go into your forum and count all the threads about major transmission problems.

I watch the forum on a daily basis. I do watch for transmission problems, and I am aware of threads that have been created concerning transmission problems.

Over the past few years, I have counted fewer than a dozen threads concerning transmission problems with the 04-08 TLs. Less than 50 transmissions have been replaced, probably along the lines of 30 or less. Sure, there have been many posts along the lines of "my transmission was doing this, I think I may have a problem" but those often turned out to be normal. Compare this to ten times this number, easily, for the 99-03 TL and CL forums.

I'm not denying that the transmissions on these vehicles are far from perfect. You must also remember that a number of users who participate on internet forums come to express their problems. Internet forums generally give a false representation of the actual problem rate.

I'm sure initially some visitors to this site thought that most of the six-speed autos were experiencing flare problems. On the other hand, Toyota techs have told me that this is far from true and that they are NOT getting lines of cars at their dealership awaiting fixes for flare complaints.

Originally Posted by thoots

So, what did you find so bad about the XLE leather? I find the Camry leather to be strong and supple, and if you look at just about any car from the past two Camry generations, I believe you'll have a hard time finding the kind of leather damage that your three-month 08 TL owner was talking about.

In the end, you are essentially recommending that people should ignore the nearly 30,000 messages in your current-generation TL "problems" forum, and take your word that everything is fine and dandy. "Don't worry, be happy!"

I'm sorry, but I can't make that same recommendation. I would recommend that people go right to the source -- to TL owners who have been having problems with their cars. You've got plenty of information there that, at least from my perspective, would chase people far, far away from a TL. Not that I'm particularly picking on the TL -- I would recommend that people do the same thing in regards to ANY vehicle they might consider purchasing.

My perspective remains absolutely unchanged. I'll never touch another Honda product, so long as I live. And I sure as hell wouldn't recommend that anyone "try their luck" to see if they might avoid the abysmal build quality I found in my last one.

I just don't care for the feel and texture of it. I just prefer the leather in other cars. Personal preference. To each his own.

30,000 posts in the problems sub-forum doesn't say much. How many of those are actual posts by users regarding their own problems? How many of those posts were by individuals like myself who responded to threads? Again, the number of posts in a forum really doesn't say much.

I'm not telling everyone to follow the mantra of "don't worry, be happy." All cars have their problems, and the TL is no different. One other consideration is the demographics of a particular forum. Acurazine tends to attract members who are very hard on their cars in comparison to this forum. The issues that appear will be different. If an individual is "rough" to their car interior, they are going to experience problems with leather wear. As for the pinging, I guess some people are having problems, but it doesn't appear to affect everyone.