Internal rattling during 1st 1-2 seconds of cold start

[pttrader]

My 2002 Camry 4 cylinder engine makes a rapid rapping/tapping/rattling sound for 1-2 full seconds when I start it cold. It stops after the 1-2 seconds and does not happen when it starts warm. My mechanic said he has seen a couple instances when they solved it by installing a Toyota oil filter instead of another brand but that hasn't solved my problem after 5 days with the new filter. My friend advised me to add Slick 50. Any ideas? Thanks!!

[djkor]

To quote an answer that was in our forum for the exact same question:

hydraulic tappets maybe leaking down over nite maybe causing tappin for few secs on startup till the oil bleeds into them

[TRD VVTi]

Originally Posted by pttrader

My 2002 Camry 4 cylinder engine makes a rapid rapping/tapping/rattling sound for 1-2 full seconds when I start it cold. It stops after the 1-2 seconds and does not happen when it starts warm. My mechanic said he has seen a couple instances when they solved it by installing a Toyota oil filter instead of another brand but that hasn't solved my problem after 5 days with the new filter. My friend advised me to add Slick 50. Any ideas? Thanks!!

How many miles are on the engine?

Have you had it since it was new?

Is the engine clean inside?

Where is the noise coming from specifically?

Can you post a video of the noise and location?

What oil do you use?

How long does it have to sit to make the noise?

No, don't add Slick 50. It won't help anything.

Originally Posted by djkor

hydraulic tappets maybe leaking down over nite maybe causing tappin for few secs on startup till the oil bleeds into them

The 2AZ-FE doesn't have hydraulic lifters. They are adjusted with shims, not using hydraulics...

See page 14-7 and beyond:

http://www.camrystuff.com/manuals/Ge...Mechanical.pdf

[centennialman]

If I make a nickel for every post I see from people and their "mechanics" saying things contrary to any semblance of truth for the Camry I would be a moderatly wealthy man (in nickels).

[pttrader]

Thanks TRD for your reply. Here are my answers using the vocabulary my limited knowledge allows.

How many miles are on the engine? 130,000

Have you had it since it was new? Since 33,000

Is the engine clean inside? There does not appear to be any oil on the outside of the engine and it looks pretty clean inside when I take the cap off where I put the oil in.

Where is the noise coming from specifically? It appears to be in the compartment where the oil is added.

Can you post a video of the noise and location? Unfortunately no.

What oil do you use? I normally use Castrol or Valvoline 10/30 or 10/40 but I just had the oil changed (a little more than a month after the noise started) and I don't know what they used.

How long does it have to sit to make the noise? I think about 15-20 minutes.

Thanks again.

[apg39]

I read in the manual that the traction control self-checks itself on start up. apparently its a clicking noise, could it be that?

[pttrader]

Thanks APG but I don't think it could be that. It only started about a month ago and it is dramatic and it doesn't sound like it could be normal. Thanks for your help.

[MrPlastic]

The symptoms you're experiencing suggest you should try to find an oil filter with an anti-drainback valve. This prevents the oil in the filter from draining back into the pan when parked, so the pump doesn't have to refill the filter before it can push oil up to the head. Thus, the valve gear gets lubrication sooner after startup.

I'd suggest a filter brand and model, but I haven't had my '07 long enough to change the oil yet. (On my old Expedition, the best filter was actually the Motorcraft [Ford] FL-820S. There were also a couple of aftermarket filters with valves, but they cost more for equivalent performance.)

[pttrader]

Thanks very much MrPlastic. Do you know if the Toyota filters do not have an anti-drainback valve? How can I identify the filters that do have one?

Thanks again.

[MrPlastic]

According to this thread, the OEM filter does have an anti-drainback valve.

Here is some additional useful information I saved from an old post by a guy named Ed White on an Expedition mailing list. Note that the composition of the valve may be most important. Ed also describes a possible way to determine if a filter has the desired silicone valve. (Some or all of the links may be defunct, as this post dates back to Feb. 2000.)

Almost all oil filters have anti-drainback valves. These valves keep the oil from leaking backwards through the filter into the oil pan. This keeps oil in the lifter feed lines and in the filter itself. This speeds up lubrication to important parts of the engine when you first start it up. The FL-820 has a anti-drainback valve, but it is a hard rubber type that can harden and might not seal tightly in all conditions. The FL-820S had a softer, more flexible silicone rubber anti-drainback valve that seals better (it is red, you can see it by looking through the holes in the end). This keeps the oil in the filter and oil passageways beyond the filter when the engine is stopped. I used a conventional FL-820 filter last year and on several occasions I had a lot of lifter or chain noise on start-up. I was not using synbthetic oil at the time (I was using Havoline 5W30). It was not every time and it was not necessarily on a cold start. It was a different noise from piston slap. The standard Fram Filter recommended by Fram for the Expedition, the "Extra Guard" PH-2, does not have a silicone anti-drainback valve. Fram does make a more expensive filter than includes this feature, the "Tough Guard" TG-2. These cost more than the Motorcraft FL-820S that Ford recommends, so I have never tried them.

I would recommend sticking with a filter with the silicone anti-drainback valve whether you are using regular or synthetic oil.

Here are some useful links:

http://www.pureoil.com/oil.htm

http://www.pureoil.com/catalog/catalog.asp

http://www.pureoil.com/catalog/ViewM...el1=Expedition

http://www.fram.com/oilfilters.html

http://www.fram.com/partscat_fram.html

Regards,

Ed White

[TRD VVTi]

You've been using the incorrect oil weight for nearly 100,000 miles. 10W30 and 10W40 is too thick and is certainly hurting your startup lubrication.

I'm guessing the noise is from engine wear/damage.

That's why the manufacturer specifies particular oil weights.

[pttrader]

Thanks MrPlastic. I appreciate your time. I'll check it out.

[TRD VVTi]

You said that you already installed a Toyota OEM filter. So that's not your problem...

[toyomoho]

The noise was still there after the oil and filter change?