Dealer vs me

[sdymacz]

My 06 camry has a problem with the rear defogger. The fourth line down on the drivers side does not defog but it has current flowing thru it. I tested the line with a voltmeter and it showed about 6 volts while the other lines showed about 1.86 volts. I've noticed other lines have slight imperfections in them such as blobs, splatters, and variations in thickness so I'm concerned about the quality of the defogger lines. I didn't scratch the lines and this issue has been visible for the past two years.

I took the car last week to the Toyota dealer, where I bought it, to have it checked and the next day the report stated that the defogger works fine, current flows thru on all the lines and that I must be confused with the antenna lines not heating up. So I took the car home and the next morning the issue was still there. I called Toyota, not the dealer, and they told me since the car is still under warranty to bring the car back to the dealer to explain in detail whats going on. The dealership again was trying to tell me that i was looking at the antenna but when I told him that I called Toyota and they told me to have this issue looked at, he said that if I wanted I could leave the car again for a day or bring it the next day before 2:30pm. I told him that I just can't take off work, so he reluctantly told me to wait, he then brought out a test light and asked me which line does not work, he checked the line by touching the line and grounding on the rear door latch hook and the light lit up. He touched the line in two places. He told me that it works for him. When I told him that I would like to turn the recirculate air on to cause the window to fog up and wait so I could show him what was going on he said that this doesn't prove anything and by Toyota standards this car has no problem.

Is the dealership supposed to fix this problem because he said "what do you want me to do about it" Has anyone had these problems?

[JACK_FROST]

Correction.....

[GT-R]

Got a picture of it? Take a picture when defogging if you can, so we can see which one is not working.

[Dragon88]

Here's a diagnosis procedure from a Ford article, Toyota would have a published procedure for diagnosing this as well I imagine.

Grid Line Inoperative
• Connect the test lamp or DVOM to a good body
ground
• Turn the ignition key to the run position and
depress and release the rear defroster button to
turn the system on - keep in mind the grid will be
energized for approximately 10 minutes with each
depression of the defroster button.
• Starting from the top grid line at the center of the
back-glass, touch the test lamp or DVOM + lead
to each grid line. (Use caution not to damage grid
lines) The DVOM should read approximately 1/2
battery voltage on each line at the center of the
back-glass. If using a test light, the bulb should
be approximately the same brightness on each
line from top to bottom. If the DVOM or light
indicates a high voltage or no voltage on any grid
line, move along the concern grid line with the +
test lead or test lamp until the voltage changes
suddenly. This is the area of concern-use chalk to
mark the area of concern and mark the outside of
the glass at that same area.
• Repair using the grid line repair procedure.
• When repairs have been completed verify proper
operation and if there is still a concern, complete
the grid line diagnosis again to verify the concern
area.

http://www.mach1registry.com/databas...0DIAGNOSIS.pdf

Make sure they understand the voltage problem. Take in your own voltmeter if necessary and show them exactly how you found the problem yourself. For their own part, they should follow whatever the correct procedure is and diagnose the grid line to determine the issue, then fix it under warranty. I wouldn't accept any less, and if they don't want to do it just threaten to file a complaint through Toyota. They probably won't like that too much.

[njerald]

This what the GEN6 manual says...

• When measuring voltage, wrap a piece of tin foil around the tip of the negative tester probe and press the foil against the wire with your finger, as shown in the illustration.

(a) Turn the ignition switch on (IG).
(b) Turn the defogger switch on.
(c) Check the voltage at the center of each defogger wire, as shown in the illustration.

HINT:
If there is approximately 10 V, the wire may be faulty between the center of the wire and the wire end on the battery side. If there is no voltage, the wire may be faulty between the center of the wire and the wire end on the ground side.

(d) Place the voltmeter's positive (+) lead against the defogger wire on the battery side.
(e) Place the voltmeter's negative (-) lead with the foilstrip against the wire on the ground side.
(f) Slide the positive (+) lead from the battery side to the ground side.

Voltage Criteria
Approx. 5 V Wire is not broken

Approx. 10 or 0 V Wire is broken

(g) The point where the voltage drops from approximately 10 V to 0 V is the place where the defogger wire is broken.
HINT:
If the defogger wire is not broken, the voltmeter should indicate 0 V at the positive (+) end of the defogger wire but gradually increase to approximately 12 V as the meter probe moves to the other end.

A broken wire is repaired with a Dupont paste....

[Zembonez]

Seems a little anal on a 3 year old car. What do you want them to do to it?

[CamrySExxx]

Originally Posted by Zembonez

Seems a little anal on a 3 year old car. What do you want them to do to it?

Well he did pay hard earned money for this, it isn't performing as it should so why should he just leave it when he can get it fixed under warranty.

[JACK_FROST]

Originally Posted by CamrySExxx

Well he did pay hard earned money for this, it isn't performing as it should so why should he just leave it when he can get it fixed under warranty.

no matter how old a car is...i would want everything on my car in working order.

[Zembonez]

Yeah... some people get worked up over the smallest stuff.

[toyomoho]

The photo idea is great, if possible post here. If not take it to the dealer.

Sometimes dealers avoid warranty work because they break even on the job. Yes, they are supposed to fix these things but this does not always happen.

As always be polite, don't piss them off or the dealer will never help you. Or try another dealer, they are not all alike.

[sdymacz]

Tnx for the help, Ill take a pic in the morning when is nicely fogged,the dealership didn't want to take a look a the pic they said it was irrelevant.

I called Toyota and explained to them my situation with the dealership and if they could appoint me another dealership, they told me that they would be more than glad to and they also said that they will have a manager call me tomorrow about this issue since they opened a case.

I called a friend and she works for a another Toyota dealer in finance with her husband who is a service manager there and he told me that by using the test light method I will always get the light on (thats the trick, except when the line is discontinued in more then one place between the vertical lines) because the current flows in to the line but i wont get a defogging action because there is no resistance and thats why the line does not heat up. Another check I did was with a laser temp gauge and that also showed that the line its not heating up.

For those that think this is small problem, I don't want anything from the dealership or Toyota for free only what Im paying for. I just need to get my car fixed, i still have 5 more $522 payments, besides Im spending my money and time even its under warranty

[TRD VVTi]

You are entitled to have it repaired. I would and understand exactly what you're saying.

I'm sure that the next dealer will fix it for you.

By the way, the dealer does make a profit on warranty repairs. Toyota pays better than most other manufacturers.

[gdanaher]

If it is within the 36 month, 36 thousand mile warranty, ask them to replace the rear glass. If it is beyond that, get your debit card out and pay them to replace the rear glass.

[sdymacz]

I dropped my car off last Thursday at the second Toyota dealer and the next day they called me because they found the problem right away. Window came in over the weekend but I got a call from them on Monday that the window was broken during shipment so they will have reorder the window and call again the glass installation professional vendor they call glassier, since they don't do body work. The next day I went to pick up the vehicle and upon my visual inspection I notice that the molding was up in one spot about a good 6 inches long by half of inch high, at that moment the vallay attendant saw me looking at it and said if everything was ok, I showed him the molding and he called in technician to take a closer look. But when the tech saw the molding he told me to tell the rep inside to call the glass vendor. When they called the vendor the vendor was telling them its only bubbles but when I told them that tech took a look at it and that he did not want anything to do with it, I told them that Im leaving the car till the vendor can fix it. The next day I was told that the molding was fixed and that the problem was because the glassier used the molding from the window that broke during shipment and that he now replaced it with the one that came with the second window. On the way out the rep told me to check the defogger in the morning to see if its working correctly, that evening while driving home I got a chance to check it out if the defogger works the windows were foggy so I turned the defogger I thought that I was having Déjà vu the issue still appered to be and also in the same place. In the morning I turned the defogger on again just to make sure that Im not going nuts over this and the problem was still there on the same line but the window looked brand new, later on in the day I took a closer look at the lines from the inside and out, and found a black smudge mark on the line near the edge of the window and small shards of glass by the right rear speaker. So I took the car back to the dealer, when they sow me they said that the window is in good condition because the watched the glassier install it, but when I showed them the black mark and addition smears on my headliner, rear speakers trunk and the upholstery, they told me that they would have to call toyota to have a manufacturing rep come in to inspect the vehicle and that I should not touch anything since that could possibly void my possibilities for repair and that they would take a look but cant do anything. I said ok. They took a look for about forty five minutes and told me that the defogger works correctly because they sprayed water on the windows and it evaporated also it feels hot to the touch of a hand. On the line that appears to have a smudge that line the used a test lite and they got current, but when I asked if they tested the line for resistance besides they told me no that they dint because the technician is going home at four and is pass that time. I said how about I leave car for a day or two so they can have time to look a it. They told me "look those windows are not cheap we just cant be putting windows in without an authorization from the Toyota corporate headquarters its a third window, you will have to wait till the manufacturing rep to comes in, besides we don't want to be held responsible for poking around'. I took the car home, called my Toyota case manager and now Im waiting for replay from her since she was out of the office for three days. Ill get the call probably Monday.

[98CamryLE]

Wow! Such drama over such a small issue. (Not downplaying the fact that it SHOULD be repaired, but rather saying how much drama is involved in something that should have been fixed right the first time)

What are the odds that 2 different pieces of glass had the same defect?- in the same place?

I'd hate to cast doubt on the dealer (or glass company) but are you 100% sure that they actually replaced the glass? If I were you, if they decide to replace the glass again, maybe you should make a small mark somewhere on the glass, and then check it again when you get it back, to make sure that the mark you made isn't there.