My take on JBL Premium vs Aftermarket

[ben805]

I have an 09 LE V6 with the Premium JBL 440w system with 6 disc changer and "8 speakers", while it was pretty good but can use some help in bass. So I added a single 12" eD 13OV.2 sub in a sealed enclosure running off of an Alpine 400w monoblock. Now that I got the bass going, I started to get the itch to upgrade the speakers and amp. Bought a DLS UP6i components along with eD Nine.2x amp (200w x2). Initially I thought I could keep the stock HU, tap into the OEM JBL amp with LOC to feed signal to the front amp. Unfortunately the speaker output from JBL amp are not sending full signal, the dash speaker channel is highpass and the door speaker channel are bandpass, I was unable to tap into the headunit output either because from what I understand the signal is digital, LOC ain't gonna work there.

So, I now had to upgrade the HU, and bought the Alpine CDA-9887. Okay, got everything hooked up, but the sound stage and imaging sucks pretty bad, manually tuning the time-alignment and PEQ from the head unit improved a little but overall the sound quality is worst than the stock JBL premium system, actually I think it suck ass! Luckily Alpine has a addon tuning/EQ unit design specifically for this headunit, call "Imprint", so now I have the Alpine KTX-100EQ Imprint to the rescue. This Imprint has the ability to measure the acoustic of the cabin and tweak the curve accordingly, it generate full range sweeping tones to all speakers and can do 500 point per channel adjustment vs only 7 from HU(if I were to do it manually), after the tuning was done and uploaded to the HU, imaging, sound stage and overall sound quality have improved significantly, it's like night and day improvement! I'm getting a very linear frequency response now instead of bunch of spikes and dips all over the place without the Imprint (see below picture).

If you have one of the newer Alpine HU that support Imprint, give it a try, it worth every peny to me and it was the key to unlock the potential of my entire system. The 500 point per channel (up to 6 channels total) adjustment is not something you can do via the HU alone, you will need a very beefy sound processing unit, and would takes an experience tuner many hours or days to achieve the same kind of result. And here is approximately how much I have spent on stereo gears so far.

HU: Alpine CDA-9887 + KTX-100EQ $620
Components: DLS UP6i $330
Front amp: eD Nine.2x (200w x2) $250
Sub: 12" eD 13OV.2 $170
Sealed Enclosure $80
Sub amp: Alpine 400w x1 $150
4 ga Amp kit: $70
0 ga Big 3 upgrade: $50
Front door and dash speaker adapters: $30
Damping material: $50
Accessories (speaker wires, dash kits, battery terminals, tools, etc) $100

Total cost: $1900

Now the big question, how much better does it sound comparing to the OEM JBL Premium system? The high is more airy, mid is clearer and punchier, low has more than enough impact to shake the car if I wanted to, and overall music just sound more dynamic, the sound stage is wider and deeper, and imaging is more define and solid. Though, I probably would not notice the change when I'm playing background music in very low volume. The JBL Premium system cost only about $900 from dealer so it's a worthwhile upgrade if you're thinking about having this option in your new car. I must say, JBL did an awesome job in designing and tuning the Premium package in our 6th gen Camry for sure.

If you have the itch to upgrade the Premium system, just add a sub+amp and tap into the rear speakers with LOC and you'll have a decent sound system. If you're still not satisfy with the rest of the system then be prepare to spend some serious cash, especially if you're not doing the installation and tuning yourself! I bought all my gears from online stores at discounted price otherwise it would have cost me even more. Please remember, no matter how good the stereo equipments you got, a bad installation and the lack of proper tuning will only make your system sound like ass(worst than JBL Premium) and fatique to listen to.


Before and After Imprint tuning:

[thrawnis]

That Imprint device looks pretty nice. I like the time response improvements especially. However, $1900 seems incredibly expensive considering that cost doesn't include labor (many people would probably not install the components themselves).

Please don't misconstrue my statements, I am definitely not putting down your system by any means, just commenting. Reus Systems in Southern California does all of the systems on my cars and they specialize in high-end, studio-quality sound systems for cars. Admittedly, I do computer work for them so I get some discounts and I am a little biased, but an "entry level" system from them for our cars will probably be about $1,500-2,000 and would provide great quality sound. They don't deal with ultra bass systems; they focus on clear and crisp mids and highs with the lows setting the stage. (Sorry for the Reus "commercial" but I really do feel they have a great staff and produce a great product.)

You sound as though you are very interested in sound quality more than bass and if that is the case, Reus Systems (or another higher end audio shop) would probably provide you with better sound for around that same price...

[njerald]

I would have to be able to listen to the car audio system for 24 hours a day, 7 days/week, 52 weeks/year, 3 years straight to justify those $$$$$$$$$$.

[TOYOTALIFER]

Not to mention, but you also lose the Bluetooth without the JBL upgrade.....

[Yazovets]

Your post confirms my beliefs. Usually a factory-spec "audiophile" system may lack bass and power but it's tuned damn well for the cabin.

If I had gotten my Camry with the stock audio, I would have made a custom system from scratch for sure. But the JBL is too good to tear apart. Instead I've added a sub by tapping into the rear speakers, and it's good!

[ben805]

Originally Posted by thrawnis

That Imprint device looks pretty nice. I like the time response improvements especially. However, $1900 seems incredibly expensive considering that cost doesn't include labor (many people would probably not install the components themselves).

Please don't misconstrue my statements, I am definitely not putting down your system by any means, just commenting. Reus Systems in Southern California does all of the systems on my cars and they specialize in high-end, studio-quality sound systems for cars. Admittedly, I do computer work for them so I get some discounts and I am a little biased, but an "entry level" system from them for our cars will probably be about $1,500-2,000 and would provide great quality sound. They don't deal with ultra bass systems; they focus on clear and crisp mids and highs with the lows setting the stage. (Sorry for the Reus "commercial" but I really do feel they have a great staff and produce a great product.)

You sound as though you are very interested in sound quality more than bass and if that is the case, Reus Systems (or another higher end audio shop) would probably provide you with better sound for around that same price...

I have been doing my car stereo installation since early 90s and have own and done many of them in the past, the only thing I haven't try so far is fiber-glassing work, and yes as I get older I'm more into SQ than SPL, the loud boom shaking down the neighborhood just ain't my thing anymore, and I'm only interested in a very well balance and linear system that I can listen to for extended period of time without getting fatique, and still sound good in high volume with windows down.

I do not see myself paying someone else to do the installation and tuning for me, for one...the entire process is part of the fun and it's rewarding at the end, and 2nd reason is that I have not come across a reputable and trusty stereo shop in this area, not only do they charge an arm and leg but most of all I do not trust them kids touching my car. I took my time to work on the installation one step at a time, either I do it right or won't bother to do it at all. And yup, $1900 is pretty steep, I'd spent couple hours a day to work on the car and took about a week to finish, but it can be a lot more costly if I were to buy all my gears locally, it would even triple the cost if I were to run only top end stuff like Zapco amps and Dyn Audio components along with a DVD/GPS HU.

I'm happy with the way my stereo system sound right now, not complaining or anything, but I'm complimenting on how good the JBL Premium system sound as i am pretty impressed with its performance is all.

[thrawnis]

Originally Posted by ben805

I have been doing my car stereo installation since early 90s and have own and done many of them in the past, the only thing I haven't try so far is fiber-glassing work, and yes as I get older I'm more into SQ than SPL, the loud boom shaking down the neighborhood just ain't my thing anymore, and I'm only interested in a very well balance and linear system that I can listen to for extended period of time without getting fatique, and still sound good in high volume with windows down.

I do not see myself paying someone else to do the installation and tuning for me, for one...the entire process is part of the fun and it's rewarding at the end, and 2nd reason is that I have not come across a reputable and trusty stereo shop in this area, not only do they charge an arm and leg but most of all I do not trust them kids touching my car. I took my time to work on the installation one step at a time, either I do it right or won't bother to do it at all. And yup, $1900 is pretty steep, I'd spent couple hours a day to work on the car and took about a week to finish, but it can be a lot more costly if I were to buy all my gears locally, it would even triple the cost if I were to run only top end stuff like Zapco amps and Dyn Audio components along with a DVD/GPS HU.

I'm happy with the way my stereo system sound right now, not complaining or anything, but I'm complimenting on how good the JBL Premium system sound as i am pretty impressed with its performance is all.

If you are happy, that's what really matters! Nice job and take some pics!

[catric69]

Originally Posted by Yazovets

Instead I've added a sub by tapping into the rear speakers, and it's good!

I'm not a audio expert, but I have a feeling this is a terrible idea.

[netrickyaz]

no actually it won't matter assuming he actually used a line level converter and an amp... that would be pretty bad if you literally just tapped of the back speakers straight to the subs :P

[Yazovets]

Originally Posted by netrickyaz

no actually it won't matter assuming he actually used a line level converter and an amp... that would be pretty bad if you literally just tapped of the back speakers straight to the subs :P

Of course I did not just tap in. I do have a line level converter and a 250W RMS amp.

[netrickyaz]

HA HA, i figured you did are you powering one sub and what brand?

[ben805]

Originally Posted by Yazovets

Your post confirms my beliefs. Usually a factory-spec "audiophile" system may lack bass and power but it's tuned damn well for the cabin.

If I had gotten my Camry with the stock audio, I would have made a custom system from scratch for sure. But the JBL is too good to tear apart. Instead I've added a sub by tapping into the rear speakers, and it's good!

Indeed, the JBL premium system is tuned very very well for our cabin, by far one of the best OEM stereo system I have ever heard. Other than lacking in bass, personally I think the upper range can use a bit more help as well, the higher frequency range don't have enough bite and crispness for some of the materials I listen to (jazz and classical). I really wanted to keep the JBL 6 disc changer for the stock look eventhough I do not use the Blue tooth, unfortunately the only way to do it I had to get the $110 JL CL-SSI unit for summing signals and a $300 JL CL441-dsp processor. If I use this Cleansweep combo it will also throw out the original JBL tuning. In comparison, the 120 bands EQ(30 x4 channels) from Cleansweep does not hold a candle to the Alpine Imprint's 3000 bands EQ (500 x6 channels).

The Cleansweep only flatten out the HU frequency response and that's it, you'll still need an addtional processor to smooth out the cabin frequency response and adjust time alignment manually. On the other hand, the Imprint measure the acoustic of the cabin first, then flatten out the frequency response of your entire system, adjust the x'over point, and set the time alignment base on whichever car seat you choose to optimize. Overall the Imprint is a far more advance, accurate, and effective processor than what cleansweep has to offer. The only thing I wish I can do with Imprint is to set the x'over point manually.

My current setup give me better sound quality satisfaction, no doubt about it. but when it comes to value...the JBL Premium win hands down, it is a classic example of mediocre equipments can sound good with great tuning and installation. In fact, sometime I wonder if I should go ahead and revert everything back to the way it was, and put all aftermarket equipments(except the sub) in my wife's 05 camry instead, the stock stereo in her car sounds like dog shit, it needed an upgrade more so than what I had in mine. The only thing holding me back is that she could careless how her stereo sound, as long as it make noise and play her radio, plus... I spend far more time on the road than she does. Her commute to work is only 10min, while mine is 45min one way. LOL

[squeakers]

instead of purchasing the $5 LOC, you could have purchased a LOC that has summation. That way you could tap into each of the speakers and output a full signal to a eq/crossover/amp. LOC with summation would have run about 150-200. Audio Control makes a couple of nice ones.

[LOV]

Originally Posted by njerald

I would have to be able to listen to the car audio system for 24 hours a day, 7 days/week, 52 weeks/year, 3 years straight to justify those $$$$$$$$$$.

looolz yah agreed, I have only one 12", and its enough.

[ben805]

Originally Posted by squeakers

instead of purchasing the $5 LOC, you could have purchased a LOC that has summation. That way you could tap into each of the speakers and output a full signal to a eq/crossover/amp. LOC with summation would have run about 150-200. Audio Control makes a couple of nice ones.

Yea the AudioControl LC6i~LC8 allow you to sum all signals and output full range to your amps, unfortunately in the summing process you'll end up with peak or valley in where the frequency joint together, as a result your full range signal is now all over the place and this is what you're feeding your amps. LOL To combat this, you'll still need to add another signal processor to flatten the curve, that 150-200 for the AudioControl summing LOC can only get me half way there, at the end I'll end up spending about the same amount of money as the JL cleansweep combo and my system would still sound like shit. There is no way around it, either I keep everything stock with JBL Premium system, which I now think is a damn good system, or upgrade everything from HU all the way down the speakers, which I did. Otherwise a half ass upgrade will result in half ass sound quality, been there done that, definitely not worth doing in my opinion.

Plus, why add a bunch of stuff in the chain and go through multiple processing (HU -> JBL amp -> summing LOC -> Processor -> amps -> speakers) while I can keep things a hell lot simpler (New HU -> amps -> speakers)? the imprint unit will be removed after you saved the tuning in the HU's flash rom. From what I have learned in the past the less equipment in the chain, the better. When I did some research on the Cleansweep and the LC6i/LC8, they both introduced unwanted noise (not surprised at all) into the system, not something I want in my setup.