2005 Camry SE V6, hard acceleration

[Scott6]

My wife has a 2005 Camry SE V6. She does not like the way it accelerates. I agree with her, its very weird. When you lightly step on the gas the car seem to barely accelerate, and stepping on it just a bit more drops a gear a puts you back in the seat a bit.

I know it backwards form a performance standpoint, but is there anything that can be done to make it smoother when accelerating? Like dumb it down, retard it?

yea...

[skyxliner]

nvm just realized that's 2005

[coffee]

since your vehicle is a 2005 model, you may try a couple of things:

1. have your fuel and intake system cleaned out of gunk ( you'll never know)
2. check the Technical Service Bulletins for misprogrammed chips that has something to do with weird acceleration and timing of gear shifting.

hope this helps.

[MrSo0h0o]

that is the way DBW(drive by wire) acts. It is the same with my 04 SE I4. There is a TSB out for the V6's so u can do a search on that and you should be able to find it. I dont know if you need an explanation on DBW, so if you do, just let me know and ill explain it. Otherwise, just find that TSB and bring it to the dealer. It will help a little but there will still be some hesitation.

[coffee]

This may apply to your acceleration issue though this did not specifically target the model of your vehicle. There are models that end up with erroneously programmed chips ... yours may be one of them.


Copied and pasted from other posting:

=====

Go to the dealer, And have the TSB applied free of charge:


TRANSMISSION & CLUTCH
TC003-05
Title:
ECM CALIBRATION: SHIFT FEELING
ENHANCEMENT
Models:
'04 - '05 Camry (3MZ-FE, 5-Speed A/T)
June 3, 2005
Introduction
To improve the transmission shift feeling during specific operating modes, the Engine Control Module (SAE term: Powertrain Control Module/PCM) calibration has been revised. These improvements include:
^Reduced downshift lag when accelerating at speeds from 10 to 20 mph.
^Less gear hunting when driving on/off accelerator pedal at 20 to 30 mph (for example: during heavy rush-hour traffic).
^Improved response rate during heavy acceleration from a stop.
NOTE :
^Version 12.2a or later Diagnostic Tester software is required to perform this procedure.
^Before proceeding, verify the ECM (PCM) calibration has NOT been updated by checking for the Authorized Modifications Label (shown in step 1 of the Repair Procedure).
^Harsh ATM shifting may result if any Repair Procedure steps are omitted (specifically steps 2 and 4 of "Flash Reprogram ECM").
Applicable Vehicles
^2004 - 2005 model year Camry vehicles equipped with 3MZ-FE engine and 5-speed automatic transmission.

Warranty Information
Applicable Warranty*:
This repair is covered under the Toyota Federal Emissions Warranty. This warranty is in effect for 96 months or 80,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the vehicle's in-service date.
*Warranty application is limited to correction of a problem based upon a customer's specific complaint.

[Scott6]

Originally Posted by MrSo0h0o

that is the way DBW(drive by wire) acts. It is the same with my 04 SE I4. There is a TSB out for the V6's so u can do a search on that and you should be able to find it. I dont know if you need an explanation on DBW, so if you do, just let me know and ill explain it. Otherwise, just find that TSB and bring it to the dealer. It will help a little but there will still be some hesitation.

yes please elaborate on DBW

Originally Posted by coffee

This may apply to your acceleration issue though this did not specifically target the model of your vehicle. There are models that end up with erroneously programmed chips ... yours may be one of them.


Copied and pasted from other posting:

=====

Go to the dealer, And have the TSB applied free of charge:


TRANSMISSION & CLUTCH
TC003-05
Title:
ECM CALIBRATION: SHIFT FEELING
ENHANCEMENT
Models:
'04 - '05 Camry (3MZ-FE, 5-Speed A/T)
June 3, 2005
Introduction
To improve the transmission shift feeling during specific operating modes, the Engine Control Module (SAE term: Powertrain Control Module/PCM) calibration has been revised. These improvements include:
^Reduced downshift lag when accelerating at speeds from 10 to 20 mph.
^Less gear hunting when driving on/off accelerator pedal at 20 to 30 mph (for example: during heavy rush-hour traffic).
^Improved response rate during heavy acceleration from a stop.
NOTE :
^Version 12.2a or later Diagnostic Tester software is required to perform this procedure.
^Before proceeding, verify the ECM (PCM) calibration has NOT been updated by checking for the Authorized Modifications Label (shown in step 1 of the Repair Procedure).
^Harsh ATM shifting may result if any Repair Procedure steps are omitted (specifically steps 2 and 4 of "Flash Reprogram ECM").
Applicable Vehicles
^2004 - 2005 model year Camry vehicles equipped with 3MZ-FE engine and 5-speed automatic transmission.

Warranty Information
Applicable Warranty*:
This repair is covered under the Toyota Federal Emissions Warranty. This warranty is in effect for 96 months or 80,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the vehicle's in-service date.
*Warranty application is limited to correction of a problem based upon a customer's specific complaint.

So the TSB will be free? She only has 39k on it. The dealer near us has not be very nice in the past...

[BlackCamSe]

Originally Posted by Scott6

yes please elaborate on DBW




So the TSB will be free? She only has 39k on it. The dealer near us has not be very nice in the past...

basically, there used to be an actual cable that connected your foot to the throttle in the engine. with DBW, there it no physical connection between the gas pedal and the actual throttle plate. Its all electronic. The ecu senses how far your foot is on the peddle, and then opens the throtel plate accordingly. Sometimes theres a little lag as this is happening, and if your not used to it, it has a different feel to it. Deff. have that TSB applied though. Your transmission is also electronically controlled, so software plays a big part in the way it preforms. .

[MrSo0h0o]

Originally Posted by Camralon2343

basically, there used to be an actual cable that connected your foot to the throttle in the engine. with DBW, there it no physical connection between the gas pedal and the actual throttle plate. Its all electronic. The ecu senses how far your foot is on the peddle, and then opens the throtel plate accordingly. Sometimes theres a little lag as this is happening, and if your not used to it, it has a different feel to it. Deff. have that TSB applied though. Your transmission is also electronically controlled, so software plays a big part in the way it preforms. .

thanks mate! took the words right out of my mouth

[Scott6]

Originally Posted by Camralon2343

basically, there used to be an actual cable that connected your foot to the throttle in the engine. with DBW, there it no physical connection between the gas pedal and the actual throttle plate. Its all electronic. The ecu senses how far your foot is on the peddle, and then opens the throtel plate accordingly. Sometimes theres a little lag as this is happening, and if your not used to it, it has a different feel to it. Deff. have that TSB applied though. Your transmission is also electronically controlled, so software plays a big part in the way it preforms. .

Ohh ok, I kinda figured that... Thanks for info!

My 06' S60 5T is computer controlled peddle as well, its much smoother, and very responsive, yet smooth.. (then again the price was more responsive too!)

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted by Camralon2343

basically, there used to be an actual cable that connected your foot to the throttle in the engine. with DBW, there it no physical connection between the gas pedal and the actual throttle plate. Its all electronic. The ecu senses how far your foot is on the peddle, and then opens the throtel plate accordingly. Sometimes theres a little lag as this is happening, and if your not used to it, it has a different feel to it. Deff. have that TSB applied though. Your transmission is also electronically controlled, so software plays a big part in the way it preforms. .

And to add a bit more to that good description, the interposing of a computer (the ECU) between your foot and the throttle had created the opportunity for the engineers (mechanical and social...) to get in there and "filter" the car's responses. I used to have a 2003.5 V-6 Camry and an 04 Infiniti G35, both had DBW. The Toyota system had clearly been programmed second guess the driver in order to maximize fuel economy. It's as if the ECU is thinking, "OK, he just got on the gas, I'll wait a few microseconds before I command a full open throttle plate to see if he really means it, or if he's going to back off." Of course, I know the ECU doesn't think in English, but you get the idea. Big Brother now lives under your hood. Alas, Big Brother doesn't know or care if you happen to be attempting a merge in front of a speeding 18-wheeler... By contrast, the G35's system was not afflicted with such conflicts in its personality. You call for power, you get it NOW. My TCH is obviously DBW, but for whatever reason, responds much more crisply than the Gen-5 I had did. Here's a picture of the mechanism on the Gen-5's intake. Note the absence of a cable linkage.

[coffee]

Originally Posted by Scott6

...

So the TSB will be free? She only has 39k on it. The dealer near us has not be very nice in the past...

Before you bring the car to the dealer's service shop, practice how to explain what you are experiencing in the operation of the car. Keep as close as you can to the specifics stated on the TSB. For example, you can state these as facts:

- weird response during heavy acceleration from a stop and difficult to control acceleration in traffic stop/go
- gear hunting when driving on/off accelerator pedal between speeds 20 - 30 mph
- when doing rolling stops and executing corner turns, weird timing of gear shifting

If the dealership gives you a hard time, you can always file/post your experiences/complaints with the Better Business Bureau (BBB) at http://welcome.bbb.org/

I can sympathize with you because I went through a couple of TSB applications myself. One TSB was applied free of charge for acceleration and gear shifting issues. The other TSB applied for steering column thud I had to pay for it because the warranty already expired.

Hope these help you out and gooooooood luck.

[coffee]

Just a reminder:

Should you decide to have the acceleration and weird shifting remedied by having the chip's program updated, have the driver of the vehicle drive the car for at least 20-30 minutes off the dealership's service lot. The reprogrammed chip will learn from the driver's driving habits up to a week. If your wife uses the car more often than you, she should do the driving.

I think this is where Toyota made its mistake by opting to use a "learning" chip in their vehicles. Toyota thinks that the car should learn from the driver and allowing the car take over the responsibilities on when to shift, when to accelerate, etc ... as opposed to the driver learning about the car. I personally would rather learn about the car's quirks and modify my driving habits accordingly.

I've been told that several models have had their transmissions replaced because of damage related to the erroneously programmed chips. Well' ... this problem would not have occurred if the chip was programmed to a set of values ... period. Let the driver learn how to manage the car themselves. Taking away the human factor -- decision making -- is not making me comfortable with the technology. What happens if the family has only one vehicle and multiple drivers -- mom, dad, son, daughter, etc. What then? The car would get confused trying to learn from all the drivers. Isn't this idiotic?

[Scott6]

We ended up trading it in for a 2009 Camry LE 2.4l...

She loves it, says it drive like her old 97' Camry she loved so much.


Problem solved!

[MrSo0h0o]

Originally Posted by Scott6

We ended up trading it in for a 2009 Camry LE 2.4l...

She loves it, says it drive like her old 97' Camry she loved so much.


Problem solved!

congrats on the new purchase! just be weary of the DBW(drive by wire) system... the throttle is controlled electronically rather than by a cable.. toyotas DBW system is very ass backwards in which it will conform to your driving behaviors rather than you conforming to the cars driving behaviors.. In turn, the car may feel hesitant at first on full throttle acceleration and then a surge of power.. its something you will have to get used to..

[Punks_Not_Dead5]

no problems with my '02..accels just fine..