5th & 6th Generation (2002-2006 & 2007-2011)Toyota Camry Discussion for years: 2002-2006 & 2007-2011
Topics of discussion range from fuel economy, safety, modifications, performance all involving America's favorite family car, the Toyota Camry.
Over Thanksgiving, I was home with family. My car was due for service, and my Father insists that I have oil changes/service done at dealer, so I took it to the dealer near home [Dealer A]. I normally have my car serviced at another dealer near school [Dealer B]. I made an appointment for minor service and front brake pads to be replaced at [Dealer A]. About 10 minutes into the repair, the service manager tells me that the threads to the oil pan came off, and that they would need to replace the entire oil pan. They quoted a cost of 500$USD and told me that it must have been the last person to repair that caused the issue. I called the other dealer, [Dealer B], they told me to put an oversize bolt and drive back so they could have a look. [Dealer A] refused to do it because it was not "factory". I insisted that the repair should have been covered under warranty (2005 Camry at 50k miles, warranty is to 60k), but [Dealer A] insisted that since [Dealer B] broke it, it could not be covered under warranty. As it was 2PM on Saturday, and I needed to use the car to get back to school, I reluctantly trusted [Dealer A] and authorized the repair. On Monday, I took the car to [Dealer B] with the oil pan, and they told me that that repair should have been covered under warranty (and that oil pan threading being weak is a problem with camry oil pans), that they would not pay for it because their techs use special wrenches so that they would never crosstread or overtighten the screws, and that I was basically out of luck. They currently have the part to have a "tech" look at it, but they said most likely that they would not do anything.
I've contacted Toyota, and the customer relations rep told me I would get a call back 3 days later. In the meantime, they've asked me to submit any documentation so they can check if it actually is covered under warranty.
Obviously, I know that it probably would have been cheaper to just take it to an independent dealer to replace the oil pan, but it's too late for that...
Since I never service my car myself, and only dealerships service it, ... logically I conclude either the dealership screwed up or it was a part defect - I really don't think I should have had to pay for it myself....
So here are my questions:
(1) Should loose threads on the oilpan have been covered by warranty? Is it really that impossible for weak threads to be caused by manufacturing defect?
(2) If it really is that unlikely for weak threads to be caused by manufacturing defect, is there some right I have to compel [Dealer B] to pay for the damages? I've had my car excusively serviced at [Dealer B] for the most part, with 2 services from a [Dealer C], and 2 services with [Dealer A].
(3) I think I've covered my bases in terms of voicing my complaint, but are there any other venues I should pursue?
the tech who broke the threads of the oil pan should be held immediatly responsible unless the oil pan is covered under warrenty, which it well should be...i have 70k on my 2003 and my oil pan is just fine...
the tech who broke the threads of the oil pan should be held immediatly responsible unless the oil pan is covered under warrenty, which it well should be...i have 70k on my 2003 and my oil pan is just fine...
Hmm, but which tech "broke" the threads of the oil pan, thats a question I can't answer with absolute certainty -or at least thats what the two dealers are claiming.
depends...to strip an oil pan thread, one must be tightening the drainplug, and by that logic it could have been either tech....tech at dealer B could have overtightened and stripped the drainplug and didnt bother to tell anyone for fear of getting scorned, or the tech at dealer A could have done the same thing while tightening the drainplug but actually told someone...either way, its very hard to tell who to point the finger at.
I'm guessing the guy actually took it to the dealer he consistently got his car serviced at though.
Based on the amount of time it took them to tell me threads came out, I'd side with dealer A - I'm pretty sure they couldn't have drained the oil, refilled it etc. But at the same time, there is that possibility that the threads were simply weak and the part should have been replaced under warranty. Either way, someone needs to take the blame and doesn't want to fess up. Its not like there's much data on overtightened oil pans, but I'm guessing it doesn't happen too often.
I've called corporate, but... I want to have a rock solid case that I shouldn't have to pay for any of this...
Years ago, Tyson's Toyota did this to my wife's corolla and tried to charge me $500 for a new oil pan.
There were 3 people that ever changed the oil in this car
1. me
2. a buddy of mine that was a master mechanic for chyrsler
3. this stupid dealer the ONE time I had the car in there for other work and figured it would be easy to just let them do the oil change too while they had it.
They called me after having the car for almost an entire day and said the other work I needed done was complete but that my oil pan bolt was stripped and they couldn't change the oil until I paid the $500 to put a new pan in it.
Long story short, lots of arguing, the manager of the dealer told me to go piss up a rope that the oil pan bolt came into the his shop stripped and I was trying to cheat him
All of "HIS" mechanics were Toyota certified and I was not, so therefore if I were changing the oil on my own, I must have been the one that stripped the bolt seeing as how I am not Toyota Certified and his people are.
What a douche! This is the main reason I HATE DEALERS! I have been changing oil since I was about 12 helping my dad out in his garage.
After an hour of arguing and getting no where, I called my chrysler mechanic friend up and he said that if it wasn't leaking too bad to bring him the car then and there or have it towed to him if I couldn't drive it and he would fix it for $15.
He put in a helicoil and it was fine for the next 50k miles, never had another problem and then sold the car.
I never let that thieving dealer work on another car of mine (I drive 20 miles out of my way to go to another dealer now when I need to, I use larger 'mom and pop shops' most of the time.)
In this situation, unless you have a receipt for every oil change and every oil change was done at the same dealer, you are screwed. The system is designed to fuck you.
Years ago, Tyson's Toyota did this to my wife's corolla and tried to charge me $500 for a new oil pan.
There were 3 people that ever changed the oil in this car
1. me
2. a buddy of mine that was a master mechanic for chyrsler
3. this stupid dealer the ONE time I had the car in there for other work and figured it would be easy to just let them do the oil change too while they had it.
They called me after having the car for almost an entire day and said the other work I needed done was complete but that my oil pan bolt was stripped and they couldn't change the oil until I paid the $500 to put a new pan in it.
Long story short, lots of arguing, the manager of the dealer told me to go piss up a rope that the oil pan bolt came into the his shop stripped and I was trying to cheat him
All of "HIS" mechanics were Toyota certified and I was not, so therefore if I were changing the oil on my own, I must have been the one that stripped the bolt seeing as how I am not Toyota Certified and his people are.
What a douche! This is the main reason I HATE DEALERS! I have been changing oil since I was about 12 helping my dad out in his garage.
After an hour of arguing and getting no where, I called my chrysler mechanic friend up and he said that if it wasn't leaking too bad to bring him the car then and there or have it towed to him if I couldn't drive it and he would fix it for $15.
He put in a helicoil and it was fine for the next 50k miles, never had another problem and then sold the car.
I never let that thieving dealer work on another car of mine (I drive 20 miles out of my way to go to another dealer now when I need to, I use larger 'mom and pop shops' most of the time.)
In this situation, unless you have a receipt for every oil change and every oil change was done at the same dealer, you are screwed. The system is designed to fuck you.
Yeah, I think I've decided to just service the car myself, instead of paying the dealer to do it, though I'm usually hard pressed for time... I've concluded that all the dealer wants is to rip you off; and they use thier "dealer" position to justify overcharging for everything as well.
Apparently a hand pump that pumps out the oil - apparently works better than gravity. I think I'm going to give it a try as it means I won't need unscrew the drain bolt... Might be good for flushing the transmission out too... well, since the dealer wants 250 to flush it, and I don't want to pay them to strip yet another screw, I guess 30 minutes of time + 75$ for the pump + 30$ for several quarts of transmission fluid is much cheaper...
back on topic.. apparently I'll be getting a call from their warranty review dept sometime in the next 3 days - lets see what they say..
ive been chaning my own oil since i had my first car....my dad taught me how to change oil when i was 11 or 12, and ill never let anyone but me touch my car...doing it yourself is easy, but always double check your work. i have a whole routine in place to prevent careless errors.
i am a "wrench jockey" at a toyota dealer...im an apprentice tech, and once i finish my second year of service experience this spring i will be a toyota certified expert technican....this doesnt make me unable to break things, but when i do break something i notify my manager, get the replacement parts, eat the cost and fix it rather than blame it on another tech or the car itself, or worse the owner...theres too many dishonest people in my industry, and i perfer to be honest and keep my customers. this is why i get repeat business by name. my reputation is my paycheck, so ill keep it clean and eat that oil pan cost instead of getting myself a bad survey and losing customers.
Yeah, I think I've decided to just service the car myself, instead of paying the dealer to do it, though I'm usually hard pressed for time... I've concluded that all the dealer wants is to rip you off; and they use thier "dealer" position to justify overcharging for everything as well.
Apparently a hand pump that pumps out the oil - apparently works better than gravity. I think I'm going to give it a try as it means I won't need unscrew the drain bolt... Might be good for flushing the transmission out too... well, since the dealer wants 250 to flush it, and I don't want to pay them to strip yet another screw, I guess 30 minutes of time + 75$ for the pump + 30$ for several quarts of transmission fluid is much cheaper...
back on topic.. apparently I'll be getting a call from their warranty review dept sometime in the next 3 days - lets see what they say..
I have concluded that you can't win. As cars get more and more complicated, you will eventually have to pay out the ass for something. I don't mind paying an honest person for an honest days work, but where I live, it is almost impossible to find said honest mechanic. Too many people with money here in Northern VA and too many businesses designed to take advantage of that.
When I can plan a repair (like getting struts replaced) I usually take my car out of the area to have it done. I find the labor rates are HALF and they actually only charge me the hours worked instead of book hours. Repairs end up being way less than half the cost for labor due to this and I get a better quality of work.
I do everything I can myself, but I am pressed for time as well and have limited tools. I can change my own oil faster than I can take the car somewhere to have it done and that is one reason I still do it myself.
I have been laughed at in this forum for this, but I have these on both my Toyotas
makes the oil change even easier. I don't have a garage and I am not the most organized person, so being able to change oil without needing tools is a plus I keep the drain release piece in my armrest and it works great.
Good luck with your claim, you will have an uphill battle due to lack of evidence either way.
If all your oil changes have been at a Toyota dealer get out all your receipts and make copies to give to Toyota Corp (Toyota should also have their own records on computer).
One or the other dealer screwed up and both are attempting to pass the buck to you. Toyota Corp should take responsibility for one or the other dealers failure to do the job properly.
If all your oil changes have been at a Toyota dealer get out all your receipts and make copies to give to Toyota Corp (Toyota should also have their own records on computer).
One or the other dealer screwed up and both are attempting to pass the buck to you. Toyota Corp should take responsibility for one or the other dealers failure to do the job properly.
HA!!!!!!!!!
Toyota Corp. doesn't get the maintenance revenue and has no control of the dealer mechanics.
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I keep the drain release piece in my armrest and it works great.
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