2004 Camry Control Arm Replacement Problems

[Campingguy1]

Hi Folks

I have a 2004 Camry. Daughter slide on ice and slide into the curb. The front driver side rim hit hard. I jacked up the car and checked the rim for runout. Amazingly the rim spins true.

However the lower control arm took the brunt of the hit. It bent the end where the lower ball joint attaches. This is the driver side control arm.

I have a new control arm here to put on but then I noticed there is one bolt, uses a 22mm hex that is buried under the motor mount.

Oh boy, that one is really hidden in there. Looking at the motor mount there is a stud on top, I loosened it and a stud on the bottom, I loosened it too. I jacked the motor up slightly and it lifted about 1/8" then I stopped to see what else is moving or not. I feel around this motor mount bracket and it looks like it is riveted to the frame.

OK anyone know how to get that motor mount up enough to get the last bolt out of the control arm mount? Or a cross section view of the motor mount to see what is in side?

Any help greatly appreciated.

Thanks

John

Here are some pic's
The new control arm



The 1 bolt out in the open. No problem getting to this one. but the one on the left is under the motor mount. The hex is exposed but no room to get the bolt out. That is if I can even break it loose. Can use impact on the others


Then the one buried under the motor mount


Top view of motor mount shwoign frame rivots

[JSM1284]

Remove the 3 nuts that hold the engine mount. They are accessable from below.

[Campingguy1]

JSM1284, THANK YOU!!!!

That did the trick. I loosened up the rest (4 total) motor mounts then lifted the engine/transmission. At first I still could not find the nuts to the problem motor mount. Then I felt around on the bottom of the frame where you said to look and I pressed on the end of what I thought was a flat rivot head and it pushed it. H’mmm this is a frame plug. Yanked the plug out and the nut was staring me in the face.

That did the trick and out it came. For those following along here is the problem bolt with the motor mount removed.


And the mount out on the ground.


And the bent control arm next to the new one. The control took the hit when daughter slide into the curb.




JSM1284 I more question, is there an orientation to the control arm pivot joint? The old one had 2 raised bosses in line with what looks like a deep spanner wrench slot. On the new one the bosses are 90 degrees to the spanner slot. Is there a particular way this is orientated?

I did not check if the bushing was eccentric and if it could be rotated during alignment.

Thanks again

John

[new echo owner]

Did you unbolt the wheel speed sensor wire from the body before you move the steering knuckle around? If you haven't, you might want to do that, those wires break easily, and you may end up with a ABS warning light and a wheel speed sensor code.

As far as I know the bushing cannot be rotated during an alignment, and it is concentric to the control arm. If the hit was enough to bend the control arm, you may want to check the steering knuckle too.

N.E.O.

[warpedrotor]

Looks like you just jacked the engine and transmission up, how much and did you have to unhook anything else besides the motor mounts? The dealer wanted to change my lower control arms a while back for $900, I never got around to it because I had heard of the motor mount issue; the shop manual tells you to remove the motor and transaxle...

[Campingguy1]

Reporting back

N.E.O. Thanks for the heads up on the speed control sensor. I was extra care full to not move the steering joint. The spring compressor I used went on the out side of the coil and I put a bottle jack under the brake rotor with 2 lug nuts on just to hold it steady, no load, just to kept it steady. Nothing moved as there was no loads left from the springs. After looking at the sensor wire I thought I could do more harm trying to unhook it as there are so many tie points.

It is all back together now. The steering wheel was about 45 degrees off from the curb hit, now with the new arm on, it is back to horizontal. Monday it goes into the alignment shop.

Warpedrotor, You said control “arms”. I only had to do one of them. On the driver side the engine needs to lift at least 1” to be able to get the motor mount out. The 3 studs in the bottom are so long, longer then they need to be. There is ¾” exposed thread after the nut. This means the engine has to go that much higher to get the mount up out of the frame. On the way back in, I trimmed each stud 3/8” shorter and dressed the stud thread end in case I ever have to do this again. There is still 3/8” exposed threads beyond the nut. It may be that you do one side at time. I only tilted the engine, not lift the entire engine vertical.

I will say this, it is a job and be prepared to have time and air tools. You can get hung up on one rusted bolt that will eat up hours. In my case it was not rusted bolts but getting one back in. It took me longer to get the 3 bolts in on the ball joint thru the control arm then anything else. There are 2 studs and then 1, 12mm bolt that comes up from the bottom thru the control arm. The studs where easy, but the 1 bolt…. The hole would not exactly line up easily. It took a good deal of effort to get that one bolt up from the bottom to go in.

Hope this helps

John

[warpedrotor]

John/JSM1284/NEO:
Thanks so much for this post and the responses, I feel more confident to do this work when the time comes. The dealer stated that the ball/socket joints on the control arms were starting to come apart, but it looks worse when the car is lifted and the arms are at extreme angles, I put a pry bar to them with the car on the ground and couldn't get any side to side movement so I figure they're good for a while.

[Campingguy1]

Warpedrotor

Glad it helped. I needed help and others helped me so just passing along the favor. Good Luck

John

[charleync]

I have a 2004 Solara with 61,000 miles on it. I experience many of the common complaints such as pull to the left, steering looseness, noises coming from front end, tire cupping, etc. When I was checking over the front end, everything appears tight and stable except for the rear bushing on the lower control arms. I am able to pry it up and down with a bar about 1/2 inch or so. The bushing appears to be good condition, but I am wondering if this play is normal. Does anyone know?

[Campingguy1]

Hi Charleync

If this is the rear bushing you are referring to


When the control arm is new, there is no play in that bushing. It "feels" like it is rubber mounted and you can slightly pivot it if I recall correctly but there was no play. And no play on the old one I took out.

Hope this helps

[Robert1820]

Campingguy1, if you have the alignment checked/set, the print out will hopefully include SAI (steering axis inclination) and included angle figures. This helps to diagnose knuckle, strut, frame and subframe damage. I do service work and alignments all day. I think the damage in your case is likely limited to the control arm. Post the results here if you want and we'll have a look!

[Campingguy1]

Robert

Thank you for the info and concern. However I did that work on my daughters car back in Dec 2008. See original post date. Charleync was asking about play in the lower control arm today and I told him what I knew about it. Maybe you can help fill him in some more.

Daughters front end has been working well after the alignment and tires are wearing OK.

Thanks

John

[charleync]

Thanks Campingguy1. Yes, that is the bushing I was referring to. I didn't notice any side-to-side movement in it, but I could pry the control arm up and down at that location with a bar. It would seem that the up and down movement might allow the tire to bounce, causing the cupping on the tires.

[Robert1820]

Sorry guys, I lost the plot here. Some up and down play in this bushing is fine as long as the rubber is not cracked through or separated from the bolt sleeve or control arm. The loads on this bushing are mainly lateral. I have seen this general type of bushing fail. It will almost always make a solid clunking feel and sound, mainly at low speeds on sharp bumps. I could write a book about tire cupping. It is true that worn bushings, ball joints, struts, poor alignment and tire balance can aggravate cupping but they are NOT the root cause. Simply put, cupping is caused by a tire rolling continuously in the same direction. Now add toe and track changes as the car and suspension are moving. The simple solution is cross rotation of the rear tires to the front, straight back rotation of the fronts to the rear. Do this every 5k miles. Avoid directional tires on Camrys. These cars are "tire eaters" and will often cup a directional tire fairly quickly, resulting in noise complaints that only get worse with use.

[2005 Camry]

Robert1820. I'm trying to understand from your explanation how to determine when the bushing should be replaced in the control arms. Mine are slightly separated and coming out on both front left and right control arms of my 2005 LE. The car still handles fine, the tires aren't wearing and I believe the separation of the mount has been that way for awhile. I don't see an option of adding pictures otherwise I would. Thanks