If Toyota adds the software mod to brake/gas pedal in recall, it will cause crash...

[ToyotaLexus]

Is it true that Toyota proposes to modify the software of the Camrys affected the recall?
From what I've read, they want to make it so that whenever the brake pedal is pressed,
the gas pedal action will be disabled. It seems like a logical safety precaution: if the
gas pedal gets stuck, pressing the brake pedal will cancel out the gas pedal.

HOWEVER, have they seriously considered situations where it's necessary to press the
gas pedal AND the brake pedal AT THE SAME TIME?

I have to do that on a daily basis. Here's why: I drive from a side street on to a
45mph-limit highway. The side street goes uphill at 40 to 45 degrees, then I have
to stop at the stop sign. The traffic on the 45mph-limit highway do not have stop signs
and they have the righ-of-way. From where I'm stopped, on-coming traffic is not visible
due to a hill and numerous large trees.

If I release the brake pedal, the car will roll back rather quickly(remember it's still at a
45-degree angle). The only way I can turn on to the highway is by holding the brake
pedal and pressing the gas pedal at the same time. As soon as I see an chance to turn,
I release the brake floor the gas pedal. I have to do this because as soon as I turn into
the highway, it's also a seep uphill climb. (with heavy traffic going roughly 50mph)

If Toyota modifies the brake so that it cancels out the gas pedal action, my car will
roll back and hit the car just behind me. (always dozens of cars like me during
the morning rush hour) In fact, that's what I've seen many times at this intersection
when drivers unfamiliar with this road roll back and hit cars behind them.

I hope Toyota wakes up and research all possible scenarios before proceeding with a
software modification, which may cause more problems then it fixes.

Before I came here to post this, I drove to the intersecion again and tried it several times.
There's just no way around this, unless both gas and brake pedals at pressed at the the
same time, in order to enter that highway in a safe manner.(for me, the driver behind me,
as well as the driver already on the highway) The only exception is when I tried this
with my other car(not a Toyota) that has roll-back prevention mechanism. The car does
not roll back when it's uphill with both brake and gas pedals released. Perhaps Toyota
should be looking into adding this feature?

^^ automatic transmission or manual? If you have a manual then you should try using the hand brake for hill holding. If it's an automatic, I don't understand why your car would roll backward so quickly. Please provide more detail.

[zythr]

This fix is probably what is cheapest, best and safest for Toyota. To do what you suggest would probably cost a lot of money Toyota does not have. Remember, this is over a million cars involved in the recall. They're trying to get this fixed as soon as possible, before their reputation is seriously damaged.

[asn13oy]

Originally Posted by pedron

If it's an automatic, I don't understand why your car would roll backward so quickly.

Even when I'm stopped on smaller grade hills (freeway overpass) the Camry will roll back if I'm not on the brake or gas. So I can imagine that on steeper hills an automatic Camry wouldn't instill that much more confidence over a manual transmission.

Originally Posted by asn13oy

Even when I'm stopped on smaller grade hills (freeway overpass) the Camry will roll back if I'm not on the brake or gas. So I can imagine that on steeper hills an automatic Camry wouldn't instill that much more confidence over a manual transmission.

If he has a hand brake using it will solve all of his problems, both now and after a software update. If he has an automatic transmission cars sold in the USA come with foot actuated parking brakes. I'm not sure what country the OP is located in. Maybe he could chime in.

[The7]

Originally Posted by ToyotaLexus

Is it true that Toyota proposes to modify the software of the Camrys affected the recall?
From what I've read, they want to make it so that whenever the brake pedal is pressed,
the gas pedal action will be disabled. It seems like a logical safety precaution: if the
gas pedal gets stuck, pressing the brake pedal will cancel out the gas pedal.

I would understand your concern about start on slope with both brake and gas pedals. They should have a better strategy.

If both pedals are depressed at the same time, the ECU should limit the engine rpm to a medium speed (say 2500-3500 rpm) for a short period (say a few seconds) for starting up purpose. Then the ECU should return the engine to idle speed if both pedals are depressed at the same time for over a certain time limit.

In such case, you should have no problem to start your car uphill.

[JohnGD]

European cars have been using brake override for a long time. Haven't heard complaints about this issue. I guess if it's done right it should be fine. (Not that people don't trust Toyota these days. )

[Timbits93]

Originally Posted by The7

If both pedals are depressed at the same time, the ECU should limit the engine rpm to a medium speed (say 2500-3500 rpm) for a short period (say a few seconds) for starting up purpose. Then the ECU should return the engine to idle speed if both pedals are depressed at the same time for over a certain time limit.

Yeah thats what im thinking, the brake overide system will only overide the throttle when the throttle has been depressed for longer than a short period of time.

[ebumdude]

Lame thread bro.

I'm sure the scientists over on the Toyota spaceship have already figured these problems out.

Relax, you have nothing to worry about except for getting rear ended on your steep and dangerous hill.

[thrawnis]

In an article I read about the potential fixes, they listed VW (I think) as another company that already does exactly what Toyota will be introducing. I'm not sure what the solution to this problem would be but based on percentages alone, there are practically no people that have a driving situation like yours, but tons of people with the potential for a serious accident with the random acceleration issue.

Sorry man, but if I had to choose between one of the situations to plan for, I am siding towards what Toyota is planning on implementing.

[workerant]

The only thing I can think of that needs both the gas and brakes to work is when I drive my car up the ramp to do the oil change. One leg on the brake to get ready while the gas paddle press slightly, but I'm sure sometime my brake paddle get press a tiny bit. It would be so annoying if every time my brake paddle get press a tiny bit and the gas paddle disabled.

[The7]

Originally Posted by workerant

The only thing I can think of that needs both the gas and brakes to work is when I drive my car up the ramp to do the oil change. One leg on the brake to get ready while the gas paddle press slightly, but I'm sure sometime my brake paddle get press a tiny bit. It would be so annoying if every time my brake paddle get press a tiny bit and the gas paddle disabled.

I would use both brake and gas pedals as a control for
1) slow movement up-slope for parking;
2) slow movement backing in parking space up-slope;
3) starting up-slope to prevent roll-back.

In all these movements, the car would be only be running at a slow speed (say 5-10 km/h).

If the brake over-ride is designed to disable the gas pedal when the car speed exceeds a certain low speed (say 5-10 km/h), then this brake over-ride will not interfere these movements and your driving up the ramp for oil change.

This brake over-ride will also prevent people riding on brake when driving.

[kenny1773]

OP - I think you are simplifying how the system will really work

http://www.toyotarecall.org/tag/toyo...ride-software/

So how will the new system work? “Toyota spokesman Mike Michels says the brake override software system will shift the engine to idle if it detects the driver is attempting to apply the brakes without success,” explains AutoWeek.

It does not look like a simple press brake = kill engine