Transmission fluid flush/drain&refill

[Joel930]

I apolagize in advance but I have searched and everyone seems to say something different for different scenarios.

Mine: 2003 Camry LE 4 cyl 129k miles.

The transmission fluid has not been flushed in quite a while.
It is brown and obviously should be pink.

Do I,
a)Have it flushed
or
b)Drain & refill
?

Also, what is a decent price to pay for each of these services?

[gdanaher]

I have a thought on the subject, but first, are you capable of doing the work yourself?

[Joel930]

Originally Posted by gdanaher

I have a thought on the subject, but first, are you capable of doing the work yourself?

Not really, I am very handy but I don't feel confident enough to work like that on my own.

I would feel more comfortable going to a professional.

[JohnGD]

I'd have a competent shop drop the pan, replace the filter, wipe clean the pan and magnets, and refill with ATF. Verify the transmission is still on T-IV?

You can use Castrol Import Multi-vehicle ATF (synthetic blend) at about $4.5 at WalMart. It's a great ATF suitable for Toyota T-IV.

Then, with a mechanically inclined friend's help, learn how to drain/refill on these things. Do it a total of 3 times including the shop's refill above. Say one or two weeks apart. And you should be fine.

You can also use the fluid exchanger (not really a "flush", because it doesn't clean the pan for you). But that money is best spent elsewhere, IMO.

Originally Posted by Joel930

I apolagize in advance but I have searched and everyone seems to say something different for different scenarios.

Mine: 2003 Camry LE 4 cyl 129k miles.

The transmission fluid has not been flushed in quite a while.
It is brown and obviously should be pink.

Do I,
a)Have it flushed
or
b)Drain & refill
?

Also, what is a decent price to pay for each of these services?

[touringcamry]

Check this site for what you might expect to pay: http://repairpal.com/

Transmission drain and refill is similar to an oil change.

[ScrooYoo]

Originally Posted by Joel930

Not really, I am very handy but I don't feel confident enough to work like that on my own.

I would feel more comfortable going to a professional.

if you are a handy person then there is absolutely nothing to be afraid of. its one of the easiest things to do on a toyota. Anyone with some tools and the bare minimum of common sense can do it. if you have an allan wrench set you can drain and fill in 10 mins. If you have a socket wrench set you can drop your pan, clean it and replace the filter/gasket/magnet in 30 mins or less. The only thing you should be paying a mechanic to do is a flush, which you can't do yourself unless u have the equipment for it.

[gdanaher]

What I was going to suggest to you was to disconnect one of the two hoses between the transmission and the atf cooler, integrated into the radiator. Start the engine for several seconds and let it pump the fluid out into a pan under the car. When it empties, stop the engine, reconnect the hose and refill with atf. Run a bit, go through the gears, stop and repeat. You may need to do this three times to get it pretty clean but will do more than just draining the pan.

[ScrooYoo]

^ neat idea. kind of like a homebrew flush method.

After reading that I started thinking about trying it the next time I do a drain & fill until I realized how much ATF would be wasted draining and filling it 3 times. I'd probably rather pay for a flush before buying, wasting and disposing of that much ATF. Still a neat technique though.

[JohnGD]

Actually to do a true fluid exchange a machine will need about 16 qts of new ATF. Because even if you use the cooler line method the fluid you add back is mixed with the old before going to the torque converter and coming out to the cooler line.

With 16 qts you can do about 4 drains and refills (~4 qts each time). With 3 drains/refills you get about 87.5% of the old fluid out.

But whatever works for you.

Originally Posted by ScrooYoo

^ neat idea. kind of like a homebrew flush method.

After reading that I started thinking about trying it the next time I do a drain & fill until I realized how much ATF would be wasted draining and filling it 3 times. I'd probably rather pay for a flush before buying, wasting and disposing of that much ATF. Still a neat technique though.

[ScrooYoo]

^ good info. I did not know that 16qts of ATF get used in a standard tranny fluid flush. I guess that explains why they cost so much! and damn, John you're like an encyclopedia of cars.. 87.5%? lol.

[JohnGD]

Actually, the machine needs at least 16 qts to do a proper flush. Not that all shops will give you that much. If you know what I mean.

Originally Posted by ScrooYoo

^ good info. I did not know that 16qts of ATF get used in a standard tranny fluid flush. I guess that explains why they cost so much! and damn, John you're like an encyclopedia of cars.. 87.5%? lol.

[ScrooYoo]

ok, questions for JohnGD and gdanaher

I'm going to clean my pan and replace my filter, magnet and gasket soon. I've decided to give the cooler line flush method a try while I'm at it. What originallly deterred me was how expensive Toyota genuine ATF is until I realized I could just use valvoline or some cheaper atf to flush it and save the Toyota ATF for the final fill. Anyways these are my questions:

1. Instead of stopping the engine, reconnecting the hose and refilling, couldn't you just leave the engine running with the hose disconnected and keep feeding transmission fluid into the tranny as its running (proportionate to how much is coming out)? any danger in doing it this way? Also instead of using a set number (3 drains and refills) couldn't you just watch until the cooler line starts pumping out clean fluid?

2. Is there an easy way to tell which line is the one feeding fluid to the cooler and which one is feeding the fuid back into the tranny? I guess the obvious way would be to disconnect both hoses and look for the one pouring out the tranny fluid, but was just wondering if there is a simpler way to tell which is which.

thanks!

[JohnGD]

If you want to do the cooler line method that's fine too. It's just messier that's all. I would be hesitant to let the ATF pump (or any pump) run dry.

The speed at which the ATF comes out isn't that fast, but usually the speed you can fill is even slower. But if you can keep it filled without stopping then let us know.

To properly verify which line is which, with the engine warm, touch both lines (be careful). The warmer line is coming from the transmission; the cooler line is going back into the transmission.

Originally Posted by ScrooYoo

ok, questions for JohnGD and gdanaher

I'm going to clean my pan and replace my filter, magnet and gasket soon. I've decided to give the cooler line flush method a try while I'm at it. What originallly deterred me was how expensive Toyota genuine ATF is until I realized I could just use valvoline or some cheaper atf to flush it and save the Toyota ATF for the final fill. Anyways these are my questions:

1. Instead of stopping the engine, reconnecting the hose and refilling, couldn't you just leave the engine running with the hose disconnected and keep feeding transmission fluid into the tranny as its running (proportionate to how much is coming out)? any danger in doing it this way? Also instead of using a set number (3 drains and refills) couldn't you just watch until the cooler line starts pumping out clean fluid?

2. Is there an easy way to tell which line is the one feeding fluid to the cooler and which one is feeding the fuid back into the tranny? I guess the obvious way would be to disconnect both hoses and look for the one pouring out the tranny fluid, but was just wondering if there is a simpler way to tell which is which.

thanks!

[ScrooYoo]

ok, I just finished the job. To keep the pump from running dry I just fed the cooler line hose into an empty engine oil container that had measurements for quarts on the side of it. I let it pump out about 2.5 quarts into the jug, shut off the engine, put 2.5 quarts back in and started the engine again. Might not be as effective but it saved the trouble of connecting/disconnecting the hose several times. After about only 10 quarts the line started pumping crystal clear red fluid. I dabbed some on a paper towel and there was no trace of brown in it so I stopped there. I was expecting to use at least 12-14 quarts but I drain & fill the tranny fluid religiously every 30k miles on the dot so it was probably decently clean anyways. Used OEM fluid for the whole job, so it wasn't cheap at $7/quart.

I can feel a nice difference already. The car already shifted smoothly, but now its like butter. Thanks you guys for the idea & the tips (even though this isn't my thread, lol) As always, TN & its members come through with the helpful info. cheers,

[gdanaher]

I posted my comment days ago and only now review the thread. I would always use the proper type of fluid and not go cheap on it. There is no way to get all fluid out without removing the transmission. If you contaminate the fluid with the wrong type or odd brand, it will be in there for awhile, so don't do that. The job can be done with 2-3 gallons of fluid. Remember that you can only pump out a few quarts before it will run dry. Dry is a misnomer. It gets low enough to not pump. Dry is not dry, but the torque converter is full and you need enough to continue to pump it through. I subscribe to mixing the new with the old by allowing it to run a few minutes before the second dump. In any event, this is generally something you do in the driveway, and is much cheaper than going to a shop. This method is hugely more efficeient than a mere drain and fill.