Toyota Certified 2010 CAMRY SE with dents on bumper - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

qsg1119 · 06-03-2010, 12:07 AM

Hi All,

I purchased a Certified 2010 Camry SE last week. The rear bumper had dents on it but the dealer agreed to Take Care Of the Bumper as long as accept the purchase price and so I did. I also signed a form indicating they would fix it. Left the car at the dealership hoping the bumper issue would be taken care of.

Returned at the dealership today and the rear bumper still looks the same, it was just repainted, I told the manager I was not happy with the car and would like to return it instead since I have not taken the car off their lot but the manager said NO because they do not do that. He also said that only a new bumper would fix it but he would not pay for it, he could only do is ask they body shop to resand and repaint it again. Obviously, sanding and repainting would not remove the dents.

Isn't it that under the 160-point inspection, the car should be free of dents, cuts and gouges?

Is the bumper covered under the 3-month/3,000 mile comprehensive warranty? I could not find Toyota's comprehensive warranty coverage.

Could I still pursue them to change the bumper eventhough I could not find the form I signed that says they would fix the bumper?

I will be going back to the dealership on Saturday, any advice from you guys on how to deal with the manager and pursue him to change the bumper would really help.

Thanks

tengiday · 06-03-2010, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qsg1119

Hi All,

I also signed a form indicating they would fix it.
...
Could I still pursue them to change the bumper eventhough I could not find the form I signed that says they would fix the bumper?
...

I don't understand what you mean. If you already signed this form, it's the evidence to ask them to fix the bumper!

asn13oy · 06-03-2010, 12:33 AM

Of the 160 points, these could apply for you:

Bumpers are free of cuts, gouges and scratches
Body is free of all dents
Body is reasonably free of dings
Paint is reasonably free of scratches and chips
Vehicle is free of improper paint repairs or mismatched color

A dent would have to be pretty big in a plastic bumper to remain there, so I'll assume what you really have are dings. According to you, your bumper is free of cuts, gouges, and scratches. The next relative point of inspection that could apply to you would be that the "Body is reasonably free of dings". The qualifying word (for the dealership) would be "reasonably". I dislike it when words like "reasonable" are used when more precise or definitive words/terms should be used for instances like this.

Who's to say what "reasonably" really means? Is a bumper that is completely free of dings reasonable? Is the dealership replacing the entire bumper reasonable? Is it reasonable that you should have been very specific when negotiating (yes, negotiating) the bumper repairs with the dealership? The entity that ultimately defines that word in this situation is the one with the most money to lose.

...in my opinion.

justthinking · 06-03-2010, 05:54 AM

How much did you pay for the car? Why go with certified on a camry instead of a new one?
More often than not, you thought you got a good deal but you actually could have get a brand new car for similar price..
As far as bumper..have them work on it until you are happy..don't accept crappy paint job..

qsg1119 · 06-03-2010, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tengiday

I don't understand what you mean. If you already signed this form, it's the evidence to ask them to fix the bumper!

Yes it is the evidence but unfortunately I could not find it or they did not give me a copy on purpose

qsg1119 · 06-03-2010, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asn13oy

Of the 160 points, these could apply for you:

Bumpers are free of cuts, gouges and scratches
Body is free of all dents
Body is reasonably free of dings
Paint is reasonably free of scratches and chips
Vehicle is free of improper paint repairs or mismatched color

A dent would have to be pretty big in a plastic bumper to remain there, so I'll assume what you really have are dings. According to you, your bumper is free of cuts, gouges, and scratches. The next relative point of inspection that could apply to you would be that the "Body is reasonably free of dings". The qualifying word (for the dealership) would be "reasonably". I dislike it when words like "reasonable" are used when more precise or definitive words/terms should be used for instances like this.

Who's to say what "reasonably" really means? Is a bumper that is completely free of dings reasonable? Is the dealership replacing the entire bumper reasonable? Is it reasonable that you should have been very specific when negotiating (yes, negotiating) the bumper repairs with the dealership? The entity that ultimately defines that word in this situation is the one with the most money to lose.

...in my opinion.

Actually the bumper is NOT free of cuts, gouges or scratches... that is why I did not get the car yet. And the manager said it passed their certification... that's what bugs me because they have poor quality control if they did not notice the dents on the rear bumper. It looks like its been rear ended and they just tried to do the paintless dent removal on the bumper and the deformation on the bumper is pretty obvious even after resanding and repainting

qsg1119 · 06-03-2010, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justthinking

How much did you pay for the car? Why go with certified on a camry instead of a new one?
More often than not, you thought you got a good deal but you actually could have get a brand new car for similar price..
As far as bumper..have them work on it until you are happy..don't accept crappy paint job..

it has 13K miles, and I agreed on their 16,995 + TTL as long as they take care of the bumper. Right now they are telling me that it is the best thing they could do on the bumper which is not acceptable. I will be looking at that bumper everyday and will be reminded I paid 17K for it...

My Check payment has not been cleared yet as I did not see it online. Could I hold the check payment until they take car of the bumper as my option? Is that a legal step for me or will I be liable for something if I did this?

justthinking · 06-03-2010, 06:25 AM

$17k is not too bad, a new I4 SE would probably run you about 19k-20k plus TTL..
What I would do is try to get a carfax report on the car to make sure it does not have any major accident..
Try to take a few pictures and send to Toyota headquarter and see what they have to say..
Don't just e-mail Toyota..call them, explain the situation then say you will send the picts in so they can take a closer look..

Pawel062 · 06-03-2010, 08:15 AM

don't let them try to screw you over. just hold the check if anything and call toyota.

ebumdude · 06-03-2010, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pawel062

don't let them try to screw you over. just hold the check if anything and call toyota.

+1.

You signed a paper saying they would "take care" of the bumper. Does it say to repaint a dent or replace the bumper?

***PhatRoyale*** · 06-03-2010, 09:43 AM

It's a very gray area and leaves things open to intepretation without the exact wording.

Stick to your guns and give em hell.

Well, at least until you get what you want.

***Punks_Not_Dead5*** · 06-03-2010, 11:23 AM

Never pay for a car til you know it is perfect or to your liking

gdanaher · 06-03-2010, 03:32 PM

You are asking a lot of questions, some of which are legal, and you are providing little detail, so here is my opinion. If you paid them with a check, either as a down payment or as payment in full, having the bank hold payment would likely get you into trouble. This is clearly a matter of contract law, so read your contract. Don't assume anything. Read the contract and see what you agreed to do and what they agreed to do. Did they fail to perform on the specifics of the contract? Does the contract say it is Toyota Certified or is this something the sales guy told you? If the contract stipulates a Certified car and that the standard for that vehicle is to have a clean bumper, then it could be argued that they have failed to perform. Since they do this every day and you don't, I'm guessing that they implied it was a Certified car but it might not really be, and they got you to take delivery of it before the repairs were done--repairs that were not specified in the contract. Taking care of the bumper does not imply that they are going to replace it. Stating that they will replace and paint a replacement bumper states exactly what they have to do. Read the contract. Next time, read the contract with a keen eye before you sign it, and if they give you the rush treatment, read more slowly. Sorry you are having trouble, but these guys are there to take your money, and your job is to prevent that from happening.