09 LE V6 - steering wheel vibration(s)/bad brake rotors-NEED HELP

[Paul3637]

My 09 V6 Camry has 24,000 miles on it. I replaced the worthless OEM Bridgestone tires with Michelin Primacy MXV4's at 8500 miles at NTB which included lifetime balancing and rotation. Tires were rotated and balanced at 14,500 free of charge. The car ran perfectly smooth until about 19,000 miles when two problems occurred almost simultaneously.

First, the steering wheel started mildly vibrating/shaking at highway speeds .... particularly bad between 65 & 75 miles per hour. I assummed a balancing weight had fallen off and it would be fixed when I had the tires rotated and balanced at about 20K.

Second, shortly thereafter, the steering wheel would shake very bad and the brake pedal would signifcantly vibrate when the bake pedal was given moderate pressure (no ABS issues). When I took the car in to the dealer for its 20K mile checkup, the dealer said "the rotors probably need to be turned" but I did not have them do anything at that time.

At 20,500 miles, I had the tires rotated and balanced and had NTB check for any possible out of round tire and all was perfect as far as the work done but the steering wheel continued to vibrate like the wheels were out of balance and the brake problem has gotten much worse. [they also checked the alignment ..... and it was perfect.]

After doing some Internet research I found a few similar problems with the brakes ....... some dealers fix the rotors under warranty .... others try to charge you for it.

I am taking the car into my local dealer next week before moving from the Kansas City area to Florida to try and fix the problem. Two quiestion arise as follows so I can deal effectively with the dealer (Olathe Toyota; normally excellent service).

1. Could defective/warped rotors cause the wheels to act out of balance even without touching the brake pedal - in other words .... do the brake pads lightly rest agains the rotors which I think could cause the car to act like a wheel was out of balance?

2. Has anyone had a similar experience? If so, did the dealer replace the rotors under warranty ......... or was there something esle wrong with the the car that I have not thought of?

Thanks for any help anyone can provide me with.
************
P.S. On a very positive note .... at about 21,000 miles I made a round trip to Florida (1,000 each way) ... and driving 75-95 mph almost all the way .. the car still got almost 30 mpg using 93 Octane BP gasoline ... so it is unlikely that there is any significant "brake drag."

[SimonRage]

Originally Posted by Paul3637

1. Could defective/warped rotors cause the wheels to act out of balance even without touching the brake pedal - in other words .... do the brake pads lightly rest agains the rotors which I think could cause the car to act like a wheel was out of balance?

Yep... You may also see the intensity of the vibration change with speed. I had a mazda with warped rotors up front that was fine for the most part on the interstate (a little bit of steering wheel shake) but as you applied the brakes to exit and hit about 40mph, it became downright dangerous. Something about 40mph, though because braking at other speeds (higher and lower) was fine.

It makes sense when you think about it. The rotor to pad clearance is tight to begin with, and as a warped rotor turns those clearances change on both sides causing more/less friction.

[MJZ]

Originally Posted by Paul3637

My 09 V6 Camry has 24,000 miles on it. I replaced the worthless OEM Bridgestone tires with Michelin Primacy MXV4's at 8500 miles at NTB which included lifetime balancing and rotation. Tires were rotated and balanced at 14,500 free of charge. The car ran perfectly smooth until about 19,000 miles when two problems occurred almost simultaneously.

First, the steering wheel started mildly vibrating/shaking at highway speeds .... particularly bad between 65 & 75 miles per hour. I assummed a balancing weight had fallen off and it would be fixed when I had the tires rotated and balanced at about 20K.

Second, shortly thereafter, the steering wheel would shake very bad and the brake pedal would signifcantly vibrate when the bake pedal was given moderate pressure (no ABS issues). When I took the car in to the dealer for its 20K mile checkup, the dealer said "the rotors probably need to be turned" but I did not have them do anything at that time.

At 20,500 miles, I had the tires rotated and balanced and had NTB check for any possible out of round tire and all was perfect as far as the work done but the steering wheel continued to vibrate like the wheels were out of balance and the brake problem has gotten much worse. [they also checked the alignment ..... and it was perfect.]

After doing some Internet research I found a few similar problems with the brakes ....... some dealers fix the rotors under warranty .... others try to charge you for it.

I am taking the car into my local dealer next week before moving from the Kansas City area to Florida to try and fix the problem. Two quiestion arise as follows so I can deal effectively with the dealer (Olathe Toyota; normally excellent service).

1. Could defective/warped rotors cause the wheels to act out of balance even without touching the brake pedal - in other words .... do the brake pads lightly rest agains the rotors which I think could cause the car to act like a wheel was out of balance?

2. Has anyone had a similar experience? If so, did the dealer replace the rotors under warranty ......... or was there something esle wrong with the the car that I have not thought of?

Thanks for any help anyone can provide me with.
************
P.S. On a very positive note .... at about 21,000 miles I made a round trip to Florida (1,000 each way) ... and driving 75-95 mph almost all the way .. the car still got almost 30 mpg using 93 Octane BP gasoline ... so it is unlikely that there is any significant "brake drag."

1) no, the brakes do not rest against the rotors... that would be horrible engineering

2) Yes, TSB TSB TSB.

Dealers will fix it for you under warranty.

T-SB-0169-09 Rev. 1 June 4, 2009 Brake Vibration

Print it out and give it to dealre.

All Camry stock rotors will basically warp after a while.

[molson.david]

vibration at highway speed and warped rotors not connected.
vibration at braking-bad rotors for sure.
vibration at 65 and up-bad balancing.
if wheels balanced right but you still got vibration,
find tire shop with Hunter 9600 wheel machine and check tires for excessive road force variation-michelins not always the best.

[92hb_hb]

i replaced my rotors w/ aftermarket one and I still have vibration.. my corolla had ABSOLUTELY ZERO vibration and they grabbed great..

[Rapid Roy]

I have had both issues. They are not related. The vibration at highway speeds can be caused by unbalanced tires. As the tires wear, they can also become out of round. If you have after market wheels, the wheels can cause that too.

With the brake/rotor vibration, do a search here. There was a really good thread explaining about the brake pad material depositing itself onto the rotors causing the vibration. I have lots of steep hills near my house and get this problem. It goes away if I can gently brake over a long distance on a fairly steep hill, then keep driving before I come to a complete stop. This gives the brake pads/rotors a chance to cool down and to clean off the rotors. I could never figure out why the pedal vibration would come and go.

[drscot19]

I decided to take my 09 Camry SE in because I was having this same issue with the rotors being warped. The service person told me that the rotors were warped and they would need to be machined. This I already knew and I didn't need to take the car apart to make this determination. I told them about the TSB and asked the service person about the pads for the front and rear and he said that they were fine and that TSB did not apply to my car. Now either the TSB is wrong or the service person is wrong. They are going to machine the rotors and slap it all back together and send me on my way.

So I’m thinking.. Should I just wait for 5-6k for the rotors to warp again, I know they will or should I start the bitching process now? What do you think?

[drscot19]

I thought I would inquire more about the service persons answer regarding the TSB does not apply and he said that my VIN number did not show as one of the Camry's that was having this issue.

[Cking]

Originally Posted by drscot19

I decided to take my 09 Camry SE in because I was having this same issue with the rotors being warped. The service person told me that the rotors were warped and they would need to be machined. This I already knew and I didn't need to take the car apart to make this determination. I told them about the TSB and asked the service person about the pads for the front and rear and he said that they were fine and that TSB did not apply to my car. Now either the TSB is wrong or the service person is wrong. They are going to machine the rotors and slap it all back together and send me on my way.

So I’m thinking.. Should I just wait for 5-6k for the rotors to warp again, I know they will or should I start the bitching process now? What do you think?

Originally Posted by drscot19

I thought I would inquire more about the service persons answer regarding the TSB does not apply and he said that my VIN number did not show as one of the Camry's that was having this issue.

Same thing happened to me.

I took the car up to the mountains(cabin ski resort) and I think on the drive out, I was braking hard (lol going 40mph+ with snow chains and braking decently hard) from when the rotors were below freezing and I think that might've warped it. Nonetheless I took it to the dealer and they were gonna charge me $200. I told them about the TSB and they were like "Oh it says 2007, not 2008 Camry" and I just like they're the same thing!! but obviously I didn't say that. I think he checked with his manager or something and the next day, I think I called the manager first or something, but I remember he calling me and telling me that it was indeed under warranty so therefore it would be free.

Moral of the story: Talk to the manager.

[JohnGD]

I'd say talk to the service manager. Unless a new TSB says to stick the old pads to you, I thought you're supposed to get new front pads regardless, and new rear pads only if the edge code is part of the bad batch.

I don't know if the defective batches are made by NBK or not. But NBKs don't give me much confidence.

Originally Posted by drscot19

I thought I would inquire more about the service persons answer regarding the TSB does not apply and he said that my VIN number did not show as one of the Camry's that was having this issue.

[Paul3637]

Originally Posted by MJZ

1) no, the brakes do not rest against the rotors... that would be horrible engineering

2) Yes, TSB TSB TSB.

Dealers will fix it for you under warranty.

T-SB-0169-09 Rev. 1 June 4, 2009 Brake Vibration

Print it out and give it to dealre.

All Camry stock rotors will basically warp after a while.

**********************************

Had I not received several helpful comments from this thread, I would not have believed it. On November 9, two days before moving to Florida,
I took my car into Olathe Toyota and kudos to them ... they fixed it right the first time !!!!!! Very competent.

First, they had a mechanic drive with me to see if he could duplicate the problem ... took it for a test drive with me driving .... mechanic essentially said ...... "I don't have to drive it .... I can see and feel the problems from here in the passenger seat ..... and it feels like there is a vibration from the rear end as well as the front end and yes I am familiar with the TSB on the brakes."

Then, a few hours later I got a call saying the car was fixed. Here is what they did:

1. Replace both brake pads and calipers on both front wheels as per TSB. Rotors were not warped and did not have to be turned. Parts as follows:
04465-33470 Pad Kit
08887-80609 Disk Brake Caliper
Cost: ZERO

2. Balance Tires and check Road Force. It seems NTB does not have the right equipment to balance tires ..... or the guy who last balanced the tires did not know what he was doing. Not only were the front tires out of balance, but a rear tire was defective and they did not rotate to the front because it was unsafe. Specifically, they noted "No rotation at this time due to pass rear tire has high road force of 20 psi"
Cost: $51.95 .... well worth it.

The next day ...... (Nov 10), I took the car into NTB where I bought the tires and showed them the receipt from the dealer." The manager said "WOW, we will replace the tire at no charge and no proration for the 15K + miles on the tire .......... we simply don't have the equipment to check road force"
Cost to replace tire: ZERO ..... Cost to balance and purchase road hazard insurance for the new replacement tire ..... about $30.

************
Next day ....... headed out for Gulf Breeze FLA .... over 1,000 miles away and the car drove smooth as silk ..... just like new.

Again, thanks everyone for your input. An off topic question: Nearest dealer from new house is Bob Tyler Toyota in Pensacola. Any feedback on them or any other Toyota dealer in the area.

[BlackCamSe]

I had my brakes done as per the tsb. But they warped again so this time I upgraded to ebc sort slotted rotors and ebc redstuff pads.