motor knock, dealer says i need a new motor@$14K, 2007 camry w/80K

[jbbnet]

I have a 2007 Camry SE V6 2grfe with 80,000 miles (2.5 yrs old). The other night the CEL came on and lost almost all power and massive vibrations. It had multiple misfire codes so I replaced 3 coils and the vibrartions went away. I took it to the Toyota dealer today cuz it still had a knock that I couldn't resolve. The knock sounds like a mechanical knock that gets worse as the RPM increases, not significantly but it is noticible. They opened the valve cover and didn't see anything obvious but determined it's an "internal issue" and will cost 20 hrs @ 104/hr to tear down and put back together plus repaired part. Regardless it may need a motor. They assumed worse case scenario is to replace the motor (at $14,200 plus labor $1000). It never ran out of oil. Oil has always been changed at intervals. `

I'm going for a second opinion Monday.

Can a misfire cause serious damage to the motor?

Do I really need a new motor?

Could it be something other than the motor? Clogged catalytic converter?

Why is the dealer clueless?

You Tube

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[gdanaher]

.....and you want US to diagnose the engine problem but the dealer is clueless? They are right. It is an internal engine problem that can only be diagnosed when they remove a rod cap and look at a scored journal. Then they would know at least a new crank was needed and figure out why it happened in the first place. They were honest with you and gave you the worst case damages price. It might be much less than that. It gives you pause to see if you want to trade it in on something else or put that much cash into an already well worn car.

[joshuaboston]

My advice is...
Put some Lucus Motor Oil stabilizer and bring it to a dealership and TRADE IT IN, obviously don't tell the dealership about any problems..... this is if you really have an expensive repair job.

I have mechanic friends that have fixed engines before always with additional problems that happen after they fix it. Bottom line is I am not a fan of trying to fix an engine.

$14K for a new engine... OK. You should be looking for a scrap engine or a rebuilt engine if you decide to keep the car.

Used 2007's today are going for $12-13K from individuals, don't of dealer prices, I am sure they are like $14-15 for a LE I4. And right now Toyota is offering 0% financing... if you do trade in your car.

My buddy blew his head gasket on a Subaru that was 3 years old ($3K repair at a dealership), he changed the oil, filled up the radiator fluids and drove it to a dealership and traded it in.

[hairball]

Kelly Blue Book value on that vehicle averages $15K to $18K +/- and there are 40 them on ebay for sale for LESS than the dealer is asking for the repair. In fact there is one on ebay from a private party with 26,000 one-owner miles for $16,000 (a bit more than the quote you got). If it were me, I'd buy another car before spending more than a few thousand dollars on it. Or at least a crate engine from a local wrecking yard that sells them. You could probably find a crate engine and pay a local mechanic to install it all for less than a grand. But I know you're probably attached to your car and it's a tough decision.

[JohnGD]

$2000+ for an autopsy? Sounds like a joke.

If you don't want to part with the car then check with your local AERA engine rebuilders assoc member shop and see what they quote you. Preferably find a shop with racing experience if there is that choice near you.

http://www.aera.org/member.aspx

I don't see Marshall Engines listing the 3.5L, but you might want to give them a call. They and Jasper have the 3-year/100K mile warranty.

http://www.marshallengines.com/

Some of these problematic 3.5Ls are piston slapping even when new on the Lexus dealer lot. Rebuild parts availability and cost may be a problem. But the 3.5L is just too young of an engine to be having this kind problems. Must be cost cutting.

Maybe just trade it in?

Originally Posted by jbbnet

I have a 2007 Camry SE V6 2grfe with 80,000 miles (2.5 yrs old). The other night the CEL came on and lost almost all power and massive vibrations. It had multiple misfire codes so I replaced 3 coils and the vibrartions went away. I took it to the Toyota dealer today cuz it still had a knock that I couldn't resolve. The knock sounds like a mechanical knock that gets worse as the RPM increases, not significantly but it is noticible. They opened the valve cover and didn't see anything obvious but determined it's an "internal issue" and will cost 20 hrs @ 104/hr to tear down and put back together plus repaired part. Regardless it may need a motor. They assumed worse case scenario is to replace the motor (at $14,200 plus labor $1000). It never ran out of oil. Oil has always been changed at intervals. `

I'm going for a second opinion Monday.

Can a misfire cause serious damage to the motor?

Do I really need a new motor?

Could it be something other than the motor? Clogged catalytic converter?

Why is the dealer clueless?

[BlackCamSe]

theres no way that these engines go for 14k. if the top end is still good i dont see why they wont just do a short block

[troidus]

Try to find the knocking cylinder by unplugging the coils one at a time until the knock changes tone or stops altogether. That will be the one with the problem. Then do a compression test to see how bad off things are. If they're all within 10% of each other, then the rings are still sealing and you probably haven't bent anything. At that point, drop the pan and pull the rod cap for the rod bearing you think is bad. It'll be evident upon inspection if you've spun it or not. If that's all that's wrong, you may be able to get away with a crank, a reconditioned rod, and fresh bearings, but you'll have to pull the cylinder head on that side to get the piston and rod assembly out to replace the rod.

toyotapartsdirect lists an "engine" (sounds like a long block, rather than a complete engine) for $12,206.42. Then there'd be shipping on top of that, plus installation. A short block is $2873.74, which would be a good option if the top end is OK and you have some engine assembly skills. Good luck.

[toyinca]

There are companies that import used guaranteed low mileage engines from japan and sell them super cheap.
I once needed a module for a hyundai,,,,, turns out it was cheaper to buy the ENTIRE assembly from these guys. Some of these places even install.
Food for thought. Avoid dealer at all costs unless you have lots to blow !!!!!!!!!!!

[joshuaboston]

Originally Posted by toyinca

There are companies that import used guaranteed low mileage engines from japan and sell them super cheap.
I once needed a module for a hyundai,,,,, turns out it was cheaper to buy the ENTIRE assembly from these guys. Some of these places even install.
Food for thought. Avoid dealer at all costs unless you have lots to blow !!!!!!!!!!!

Here is some info about JDM engines....
http://forum.miata.net/vb/archive/index.php/t-2251.html

When I blew my Celica engine, I was told that a JDM engine would fail my emissions... did not want to spend $$$$$ and take a chance.

The dealer wanted $8K in the day (4 years ago) and about $2K for install. I ended up purchasing an engine online that gave me a gaurantee (that I never used) and was gauranteed to have less then 50Kmiles. I ended up spending like $2.8k for the engine and found a mechanic for $850 to do the install.

My big mistake was I got a 2000 engine for my 2000 celica. Toyota actually had bad piston rings in there engines until 03.... should have gotten a 03 engine, my BIG mistake.


Bottom line, if you do get a reconditioned or scrap engine I would suggest looking for a 2008 engine... to many problems with 2007.

[Mike Gerber]

The first thing I would do would be to call Toyota corporate customer service at 1-800-331-4331 and discuss the issue with them. (They call it the Customer Experience Center.) Be prepared to document all your oil changes and any other work done to the car. They will probably call the daler and get information from them. There is no way a 2-1/2 year old engine with 80,000 miles on it, that has been well cared for, should have internal damage.

Good luck.

Mike

[joshuaboston]

Originally Posted by Mike Gerber

The first thing I would do would be to call Toyota corporate customer service at 1-800-331-4331 and discuss the issue with them. (They call it the Customer Experience Center.) Be prepared to document all your oil changes and any other work done to the car. They will probably call the daler and get information from them. There is no way a 2-1/2 year old engine with 80,000 miles on it, that has been well cared for, should have internal damage.

Good luck.

Mike

My sister's Honda Oddisy tranny went 5K after the gaurantee ended... My brotherin law complained to Honda corporate.... in the end Honda paid 50% of the bill, WAS NOT EASY... BUT he did not let them say no, lots of threats.

GOOD LUCK if you go this route (nothing to lose)... you WILL have to threatton to go to the BBB, sware you will never buy another Toyota again, quote (even it is verbal) Toyota service people saying that they never have heard of this happening and that you must of gotten a lemon (get names), that you will tell everyone of your friends never to buy a Toyota because of reliablity, write letters to local new/newpapers/magazines, go on forums like this one and SLAM Toyota based on your experiance, etc.. You will have to be VERY FORCEFULL... and don't take NO as an aswer. Look up people who have made deals with Toyota corporate!!!

Me personally, I have GOTTEN SCREWED BY TOYOTA with my piston ring problems with my Celica, this was recalled in Europe due to the eviroment... excessive burning of oil, but here in the USA they only recal safety issues. Replaced an egine, cost me $3.8K, and the next engine had the same problem, my resale value was laughable because I told the truth about the engine problems when I sold my car... unlike stealerships.

The only reason why I got my Camry is because I could not afford a Honda Accord, resale values have really dropped on the Camry's and I am hoping that the Celica was a one time Fup. Don't get me wrong, I really like the look and feel of my 08 SE, but I am not sold on reliability which to me is more important then looks and feel of a car.

[njerald]

Just use your 100,000 mile Toyota Platinum extended warranty............

[Zembonez]

There are multiple 7500 to 20,000 mile used engines available for this vehicle in the OP's area. Go look on car-part.com. You should be able to buy one for well under $2000.

Even with installation, the total bill would be well over $10,000.00 less than the dealer is quoting. Somebody sure is trying to put a screw job to you there.

[MJZ]

Originally Posted by joshuaboston

My sister's Honda Oddisy tranny went 5K after the gaurantee ended... My brotherin law complained to Honda corporate.... in the end Honda paid 50% of the bill, WAS NOT EASY... BUT he did not let them say no, lots of threats.

GOOD LUCK if you go this route (nothing to lose)... you WILL have to threatton to go to the BBB, sware you will never buy another Toyota again, quote (even it is verbal) Toyota service people saying that they never have heard of this happening and that you must of gotten a lemon (get names), that you will tell everyone of your friends never to buy a Toyota because of reliablity, write letters to local new/newpapers/magazines, go on forums like this one and SLAM Toyota based on your experiance, etc.. You will have to be VERY FORCEFULL... and don't take NO as an aswer. Look up people who have made deals with Toyota corporate!!!

Me personally, I have GOTTEN SCREWED BY TOYOTA with my piston ring problems with my Celica, this was recalled in Europe due to the eviroment... excessive burning of oil, but here in the USA they only recal safety issues. Replaced an egine, cost me $3.8K, and the next engine had the same problem, my resale value was laughable because I told the truth about the engine problems when I sold my car... unlike stealerships.

The only reason why I got my Camry is because I could not afford a Honda Accord, resale values have really dropped on the Camry's and I am hoping that the Celica was a one time Fup. Don't get me wrong, I really like the look and feel of my 08 SE, but I am not sold on reliability which to me is more important then looks and feel of a car.

You should have gotten an Accord lol. That ugly ass sedan (coupe is OK) is like what, $1k more than a Camry MSRP?

Toyota is not synonymous with reliability anymore. It's more like cost cutting on wheels. It takes a crap load of mods and maintenance for them to standout and last. But, if its any consolation, all the makers have gone this route... Honda included.

[jbbnet]

Originally Posted by troidus

Try to find the knocking cylinder by unplugging the coils one at a time until the knock changes tone or stops altogether.

toyotapartsdirect lists an "engine" (sounds like a long block, rather than a complete engine) for $12,206.42. Then there'd be shipping on top of that, plus installation. A short block is $2873.74, which would be a good option if the top end is OK and you have some engine assembly skills. Good luck.

Getting to the coils by the firewall is an issue. It looks like u need to remove the wipers, wiper motors, metal and plastic vent panels around the firewall wiper assembly. See pg 7 http://www.cars4qatar.com/cars4qatar...E_Ignition.pdf

So the dealer may not have been way off base at $14k for a long block. I assume the most I need is heads since it sounds like a valve or rocker issue.