Transmission Fluid on 2008 Camry

[potap1984]

Hi, I have a 2008 Camry (4 cyl) with already 110K on it. I want to change the transmission fluid but the dealership telling me that I need to do an actual flush as I am over now. I read on TN that my Camry uses World ATF and doesn't really need to be changed at all; however, I am a bit sceptical of that. Can some one give me an advice weither I do a fluid change or an entire flush; or should I do anything at all. Thanx in advance !

[Donald E. George]

Have the fluid and sump filter changed by an independent shop with certified mechanics. To be sure you get the right AT fluid,ask if you can supply it. Stay away from flushing machines that use a flushing agent. That is asking for transmission failure. Regards

[Cody491]

I bought my 07 Camry with 131k on it. First thing I did was change the transmission fluid. Dropped the pan and changed the filter. Bought the fluid from the Toyota dealer (WS ATF) and the filter and pan gasket from Advanced. They say the transmission only holds 3.7 quarts but mine ended up taking around 5 quarts after dropping the pan and filter.

[molson.david]

^.
+100.
This is ideal scenario.

Потап,
WS type fluid don't need to be changed at all according to toyota, unless certain conditions like towing, dusty roads etc.
of course nothing last forever.
if you want do it yourself,and fluid is not too dirty you can just drain and refill transmission. drain it again in 3-4K miles to replace almost 100% of the fluid.

[JohnGD]

What others said.

Definitely change the filter. For example the $12.85 Wix kit:
http://info.rockauto.com/WIX/DetailW...asp?Part=58010

You can use the dealer's WS fluid, which is Toyota's version of the thin Dexron VI (6). Or you can use fully synthetic Valvoline MaxLife ATF for about $4-5/qt some say.

http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/Maxlife_ATF.pdf

Then do 2 more drains/refills each month (or week your preference) to change most of the fluid. If the car is a keeper change the filter/fluid every 50K miles.

[rspectx]

hmm thats weird because i work at a toyo dealer and when in class out top teacher has told us many times that the WS tranny fluid has to be done by a ws tranny machine that has to have the machine and car at the same temp otherwise IT will have issues down the road. the max they did testing on one was just done it had over 145k on it and was still not bad at all....so thats just my two cents so be careful

[aznlunatic206]

Originally Posted by rspectx

hmm thats weird because i work at a toyo dealer and when in class out top teacher has told us many times that the WS tranny fluid has to be done by a ws tranny machine that has to have the machine and car at the same temp otherwise IT will have issues down the road. the max they did testing on one was just done it had over 145k on it and was still not bad at all....so thats just my two cents so be careful

^ thats what i heard also.

[JohnGD]

^ that would the case for any Le Pelletier design on the market (ZF, GM Hydramatic, Ford, or Aisin U660E started out 07 in V6 Camrys). Newer ATFs are low viscosity, typically synthetic-blend and needs to be filled at a narrow temperature range. But European automatics using traditional gear sets have been filled like manuals too.

So for those with fill plugs, fill at the specified temp range; for those with dipsticks they need to be between the hot marks when the engine is at operating temperature (not as "narrow" a range as Le Pelletier however). There's nothing otherwise special about WS, it's just another thin ATF.

[Donald E. George]

The directive to fill WS ATF at a narrow temperature range seems a bit odd. How could the temperature cause a problem? The ATF is going to see all kinds of start temperatures so the only thing I can think of is that you maybe could overfill a small amount with the ATF at ambient rather that the temperature called for by Toyota.What is the specified temperature?

[JohnGD]

Traditionally American automatic transmissions had been checked at operating temperature. The Cold marks on the dipsticks are only for reference, it's the Hot marks that matter. So the OP's 5-speed is checked like a traditional transmission, T-IV or WS (same transmission, pre- or post-07). The fluid itself is not the reason.

Even older European transmissions have been filled like a manual with fill/drain bolts. But with the newer Le Pelletier design all manufacturers began to demand a narrow temp range. That said, ZF Freidrichshaven has always been strict with fill temperature range, even before introducing the world's first LePelletier 6-speed in 2001 on a BMW 7-series.

I guess with the energy saving features like an ATF cooler with a thermostat it's more important to get the fluid warm enough so the cooler circuit opens and not too hot that you end up with low ATF level when cooled. etc.

For Toyota's Aisin the recommendation fill is between 40-45 deg C (below that really is fine too, it will just expand a bit and drain out at 46) after the cooler opens (IIRC at around 36 deg C or so).

When using the ATF temp sensing feature jumpering the OBDII, you close the "check bolt" when the "D" turns steady green at 46 deg C. This is equal to "Full Hot". But this is only for transmissions without dipsticks. Always check the manual for specifications for the transmission.

Originally Posted by Donald E. George

The directive to fill WS ATF at a narrow temperature range seems a bit odd. How could the temperature cause a problem? The ATF is going to see all kinds of start temperatures so the only thing I can think of is that you maybe could overfill a small amount with the ATF at ambient rather that the temperature called for by Toyota.What is the specified temperature?

[Frodo65]

Originally Posted by JohnGD

^ that would the case for any Le Pelletier design on the market (ZF, GM Hydramatic, Ford, or Aisin U660E started out 07 in V6 Camrys). Newer ATFs are low viscosity, typically synthetic-blend and needs to be filled at a narrow temperature range. But European automatics using traditional gear sets have been filled like manuals too.

So for those with fill plugs, fill at the specified temp range; for those with dipsticks they need to be between the hot marks when the engine is at operating temperature (not as "narrow" a range as Le Pelletier however). There's nothing otherwise special about WS, it's just another thin ATF.

These trannies are going to be a disaster as they age, especially if they're sensitive to fill level. With any 'drippy seals', these things are going t self-destruct in a quick order, with a resulting hit on the manufacturer's quality and reliability rep.

One of the bigger 'root cause' issues with Chrysler's tranny failure was fluid quality, and the demand for a very specific type and quality. With Toyota going down that path, their quality rep is likely to go down the same toilet.

Designing a system with fussy maintenance requirements and high costs is stupid if you're going after the mainstream market.

[islandboy57]

Originally Posted by rspectx

hmm thats weird because i work at a toyo dealer and when in class out top teacher has told us many times that the WS tranny fluid has to be done by a ws tranny machine that has to have the machine and car at the same temp otherwise IT will have issues down the road. the max they did testing on one was just done it had over 145k on it and was still not bad at all....so thats just my two cents so be careful

That's interesting. Though I wonder if your teacher has actually seen the results of not using the WS machine, or if that's just what he was told by Toyota to teach you guys. And if it's a big deal, how big a deal exactly?

I've got an '05 that uses T-IV fluid and I just drive around for 15-30 minutes to make sure the fluid is hot, let it cool for just a little bit, then drain it and refill. Obviously I'm just refilling from the bottle at room temp. My gf has an '09 that I wanted to change the ATF on but I didn't know that Toyota says the fluid should be the same temp as the car. Hmm.

I'm sure running on the original fluid is mostly okay but really? Will it maintain its all of its lubricating properties after 100K miles? 200K? I prefer to change it out, and I do.

[BKSmooth]

Originally Posted by islandboy57

I'm sure running on the original fluid is mostly okay but really? Will it maintain its all of its lubricating properties after 100K miles? 200K? I prefer to change it out, and I do.

Same thoughts here. Family's '86 Corolla ran on virtually all factory fluids (except engine oil and whatever fluids were topped up) from October 1985 to spring of 2006 when it was given away.

On my '05 4cyl Camry, the fluid looked unexpectedly dark at 22K/15 months; I attributed it to having stressed the drivetrain and got it flushed being aware of the purported risks mentioned above.

Flushed @ Firestone: 22k/15 months
Drain/Refill @ Independent shop: 73k/40 months
Flushed @ Stealership: 108k/52 months

I'd heard the "never flush >100k" spiel but had it done anyway. Unfortunately, I do not know whether or not the filter was replaced any of these times.

Anyhow, the fluid looks great at 136.2k/70 months and the transmission shifts just fine.

[islandboy57]

^ Funny, we have the same car!

I did my first drain/refill (2x) in '08 @ 25K miles and the fluid was pretty dark. Shift quality improved so new the new fluid definitely helped. I did another drain/refill in '09 and the fluid is still bright pink so I didn't do it in '10. I'll do it this year though. I juuuust rolled over 45K miles . I'm going to change my oil in two months so I'll probably do my drain/refill then because after my next oil change, I won't be changing it until 1/2012.

BTW, did Firestone use Toyota fluid? Just curious. There's an equivalent Mobil1 fluid but I wanted to stay with Toyota OEM type T-IV fluid. It's expensive at the dealer @ $4-5/qt - though compared to type WS ATF, it's cheap! Type WS fluid is like $9/qt!

[Warminwisco]

Not sure if this relates but I am on the Lexus forum and the 04 LS430 went to WS tranny flid and it is recommeded not to chnage the fluid. not sure why they would say that is they knew it would cause problems and lower service margins. 140k on mine shifts like liquid teflon and I have heard no one mention tranny problems , well maybe one guy, in 3 years of daily viewing.