5th & 6th Generation (2002-2006 & 2007-2011)Toyota Camry Discussion for years: 2002-2006 & 2007-2011
Topics of discussion range from fuel economy, safety, modifications, performance all involving America's favorite family car, the Toyota Camry.
I have noticed that my Camry has started to use up a little oil. The car currently has 208K miles on it and it uses about a quart of oil every 4-5K miles. I run Mobil 1 Synthetic and do my oil changes every 7-8K miles. I decided to perform a compression test to see how worn my engine is. The problem that I am having is that I do not know what is normal for this car. My readings are between 185-195 psi but doing the math for the compression rating of the motor I come up with a normal compression of 141psi. Can someone tell me what numbers I should be getting? Thank you.
I have noticed that my Camry has started to use up a little oil. The car currently has 208K miles on it and it uses about a quart of oil every 4-5K miles. I run Mobil 1 Synthetic and do my oil changes every 7-8K miles. I decided to perform a compression test to see how worn my engine is. The problem that I am having is that I do not know what is normal for this car. My readings are between 185-195 psi but doing the math for the compression rating of the motor I come up with a normal compression of 141psi. Can someone tell me what numbers I should be getting? Thank you.
you do not mention 4 or 6 cylinder, but these rules still apply......
just to give you some "insight", those readings of 185-195 are ok, and so would be 141...(all across the board)
now to further educate you, if say one cylinder read, 100, and the others read 185....what you would do is shoot a little bit of oil into the low cylinder.....if the reading jumps up to say abut 140 and above, then you know you have bad rings.
if the reading does NOT jump up..?? then you know you have bad valves.
i would suspect that for now, your compression is good, rings and valves are good, but you might need valve seals.
you could also try a "thicker" Mobil One, or switch brands to another synthetic for a while...
to me, with over 200,000 miles, your engine still "seems" to be rather tight.
if say one cylinder read, 100, and the others read 185....what you would do is shoot a little bit of oil into the low cylinder.....if the reading jumps up to say abut 140 and above, then you know you have bad rings.
^this is good info. subaru owners know this stuff like clockwork haha cuz they lose #4 alllll the time
I recently noticed a slight consumption with my 04 2.4l, was down mayyybe 1/4 quart after 4k miles-- its got 190k -- but I tossed in Seafoam for that oil change, so I'm hoping that was why it used some oil...
I too use Mobil 1 either 5 or 10w-30 synthetic high mileage...
Thanks for the help. I have also noticed that my MPG has dropped a bit especially in city driving. I do a lot of highway driving... maybe 70-30% but my average per tank has dropped from 30-32MPG to 26-30MPG. This is over the past two years and there have been gas formulation changes in my state but it still seems higher than normal. I have never done the 50K mile valve shim check and imagine that if I did I would need to replace a few of them if not all. Could this be a source for higher than normal compression and thus oil consumption? I have also never replaced the catalytic converter and have been wondering if that is the cause of my decreasing MPG and the higher than expected compression numbers? Any opinions? Is there an easy way to rule out the catalytic converter? I plan on doing the valve shim check in the next month or so when I have time. The car runs fine and idles OK. Seems to have adequate power.
Last edited by FireLikeIYA; 09-23-2011 at 10:10 PM.
Thanks for the help. I have also noticed that my MPG has dropped a bit especially in city driving. I do a lot of highway driving... maybe 70-30% but my average per tank has dropped from 30-32MPG to 26-30MPG. This is over the past two years and there have been gas formulation changes in my state but it still seems higher than normal. I have never done the 50K mile valve shim check and imagine that if I did I would need to replace a few of them if not all. Could this be a source for higher than normal compression and thus oil consumption? I have also never replaced the catalytic converter and have been wondering if that is the cause of my decreasing MPG and the higher than expected compression numbers? Any opinions? Is there an easy way to rule out the catalytic converter? I plan on doing the valve shim check in the next month or so when I have time. The car runs fine and idles OK. Seems to have adequate power.
depending on your state emission laws, as long as your car passes the tests, there is no need to replace the cat. when the car is COLD..you can get under the car, and using your fist, you can hit the cat and if you hear any "rattles", then at the most you have a broken up liner. this in of itself DOES NOT warrant a replacement. if your state has the PZEV mandate like California, and a few other states, i think the emissions warranty is good for 15 years..???? so you would still be covered to get the cat (and ANY OTHER) emissions device replaced for FREE..!! maybe except labor charges..??
i would for the time being put partial blame on the changes in gasoline formulas. i have friends that live in Nevada, and California, and they too tell me their gas miles stinks.
as for the valve adjustments..??? i WOULD have that done ASAP, then recheck your compression readings. the un-adjusted vales will not allow them to open up properly, and this "could" result in the higher readings. once adjusted, those readings "should" come down a bit, but not so much that it would indicate engine problems.
for the miles you have, i still "suspect" valve stem seals, which others here have said, it is not TOO COSTLY to have done. in fact, while the valves are being adjusted..?? you can have it done then.....
i would still refer to the owners manual, and check on the viscosity oil you can use, and maybe use a slightly thicker Mobil One, or other brand synthetic.
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as for the valve adjustments..??? i WOULD have that done ASAP, then recheck your compression readings. the un-adjusted vales will not allow them to open up properly, and this "could" result in the higher readings. once adjusted, those readings "should" come down a bit, but not so much that it would indicate engine problems.
for the miles you have, i still "suspect" valve stem seals, which others here have said, it is not TOO COSTLY to have done. in fact, while the valves are being adjusted..?? you can have it done then.....
i would still refer to the owners manual, and check on the viscosity oil you can use, and maybe use a slightly thicker Mobil One, or other brand synthetic.
It looks like my compression is good. I am going to have to agree with you that the valve stem seals are going bad. I plan on doing the valve adjustments myself and will attempt to do the valve stem seals while I am at it. My problem with the seals is that I do not want to pull the head. I have read that there are a couple of methods to prevent doing so. One such method is to pressurize the chamber with a pump to keep the valve closed another method that I have found involves snaking a rope into the chamber to prevent the valve from dropping all the way in. Considering that I do not have a pump to pressurize the chamber would you recommend the rope idea or do you know of any other methods so that I do not have to pull the head? Thanks for your help!
Has anyone done their own valve stem seals? What did you use to pull the valve springs? It looks like you can't just use a normal valve spring compressor due to how deep the valve springs sit in the head. I noticed that a company called Valve Master makes a tool specifically for the 2AZFE... Has anyone ever used it?
Has anyone done their own valve stem seals? What did you use to pull the valve springs? It looks like you can't just use a normal valve spring compressor due to how deep the valve springs sit in the head. I noticed that a company called Valve Master makes a tool specifically for the 2AZFE... Has anyone ever used it?
i have not used that tool but tell you what, it is slick...also...you do realize the head was on a bench, and not in the car...right...????
you should probably want to have an air compressor with an adapter in which you use the spark plug hole, and you NEED constant air......this will keep the valves closed.
if you feel confident to do the job yourself, then do so..other wise, you'd be better off having a shop do this for you. there are independent shops that specialize in toyota repairs, not just the dealerships.
I gave up on compression testers long ago. The only REAL information you can gain from using one is the variance between cylinders assuming each cylinder was tested the exact same way.
A leakdown test is much more accurate and can tell you sooooo much more information. I do it to EVERY engine I work on the make sure its capable of running well before throwing parts at it.
But it cant diagnose bad VSS. Of course thats easy to check. Look at the mileage. My estimate for a VSS to have run its useful life is about 100k. ANY kind of rubber stuck in a hot oil environment degrades quickly. The VSS get a constant very hot soaking. Something like spark plug well seals get it almost as bad and I'm sure by the time you replaced them they were hard as a rock.
If you're going to do valve clearance then you might as well do the VSS too. VERY suprisingly, Snap-on has a valve keeper tool that is MUCH less than the one linked earlier. Most use air to keep the valves in place while removing springs and keepers but another trick is filling the cylinder with cord and raising the piston to keep the valves in place.
The funnest part of the job will be actual removal of the VSS since they are so hard. Dont be surprised if they break. Make sure you remove all the pieces.
Have fun. Work smart!
-SP
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I gave up on compression testers long ago. The only REAL information you can gain from using one is the variance between cylinders assuming each cylinder was tested the exact same way.
A leakdown test is much more accurate and can tell you sooooo much more information. I do it to EVERY engine I work on the make sure its capable of running well before throwing parts at it.
But it cant diagnose bad VSS. Of course thats easy to check. Look at the mileage. My estimate for a VSS to have run its useful life is about 100k. ANY kind of rubber stuck in a hot oil environment degrades quickly. The VSS get a constant very hot soaking. Something like spark plug well seals get it almost as bad and I'm sure by the time you replaced them they were hard as a rock.
If you're going to do valve clearance then you might as well do the VSS too. VERY suprisingly, Snap-on has a valve keeper tool that is MUCH less than the one linked earlier. Most use air to keep the valves in place while removing springs and keepers but another trick is filling the cylinder with cord and raising the piston to keep the valves in place.
The funnest part of the job will be actual removal of the VSS since they are so hard. Dont be surprised if they break. Make sure you remove all the pieces.
Have fun. Work smart!
-SP
SP,
Thank you for the reply. I am actually kind of iffy on whether or not to even do anything with the car. I am at 210K miles and plan on driving it to 300k or more. Looking at oem parts to change out the lifters, new stem seals and retainers plus the cost of the keeper tool I am looking at close to $400. I did a quick check the other day of my lifter clearances and everything is out of spec except for two of the exhaust lifters which are at the upper limit. I am only losing 1 qt every ~4k miles. Would you advise doing this work or just keep driving the car?
Also, Thank you for the heads up on the Snap-on tool. I do have a question, though. The Valve Master Valve Keeper tool is labeled as being specifically made for the 2AZFE due to "the keepers being set deep inside the retainer"... Does this really matter? Will the Snap-on work just as well? Also, how much air pressure should I use to keep the valves in place?
Thank you for your help!
Last edited by FireLikeIYA; 10-03-2011 at 09:01 AM.
Thank you for the reply. I am actually kind of iffy on whether or not to even do anything with the car. I am at 210K miles and plan on driving it to 300k or more. Looking at oem parts to change out the lifters, new stem seals and retainers plus the cost of the keeper tool I am looking at close to $400. I did a quick check the other day of my lifter clearances and everything is out of spec except for two of the exhaust lifters which are at the upper limit. I am only losing 1 qt every ~4k miles. Would you advise doing this work or just keep driving the car?
Also, Thank you for the heads up on the Snap-on tool. I do have a question, though. The Valve Master Valve Keeper tool is labeled as being specifically made for the 2AZFE due to "the keepers being set deep inside the retainer"... Does this really matter? Will the Snap-on work just as well? Also, how much air pressure should I use to keep the valves in place?
Thank you for your help!
i hate to have to tell you, but there are only so many tool manufactures here in the states...i wouldn't be a bit surprised if the company that makes the one you linked to, makes either the SAME EXACT one for snap-off or maybe slightly different...
the real difference here...??
PRICE...and for HOW LONG you plan on doing THESE jobs.....if you're going to turn pro.....then you may want to spend the extra money...one time repair...?? why spend it...
you might even be better off getting a rebuilt head from a machine shop, or from toyota, once you do the math with all you want to do......i'd still have a shop do it though....one mistake, and YOU WILL BE towing it to one......
i hate to have to tell you, but there are only so many tool manufactures here in the states...i wouldn't be a bit surprised if the company that makes the one you linked to, makes either the SAME EXACT one for snap-off or maybe slightly different...
the real difference here...??
It appears to me that the company I linked to manufactured their own tool in house (A rarity these days). I also know that the Snap-on tool is made in the USA as well but it looks different compared to the Valve Master tool. Valve Master makes two different 6mm valve keeper tools... a generic one and one specifically for the 2AZFE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn8963
PRICE...and for HOW LONG you plan on doing THESE jobs.....if you're going to turn pro.....then you may want to spend the extra money...one time repair...?? why spend it...
This is part of the problem... I will probably only get a few uses out of the tool but it will allow me to do the work myself and save some cash unless I don't do it at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn8963
you might even be better off getting a rebuilt head from a machine shop, or from toyota, once you do the math with all you want to do......i'd still have a shop do it though....one mistake, and YOU WILL BE towing it to one......
I actually want to avoid removing the head at all costs. I am reading too many horror stories regarding the head stud bolts coming lose that I don't want to do something that may agitate the problem. I also live in the Southwest where everyone wants top dollar for minimal work. I don't trust the shops as they either charge too much, use crappy parts or both. I am basically either going to do the work myself or not at all. The more research I am doing however the easier it seems... Actually, it seems pretty darn simple. I am hesitant due to the cost/benefit and a fear of accidently dropping a valve in the chamber.
Thank you for the reply. I am actually kind of iffy on whether or not to even do anything with the car. I am at 210K miles and plan on driving it to 300k or more. Looking at oem parts to change out the lifters, new stem seals and retainers plus the cost of the keeper tool I am looking at close to $400. I did a quick check the other day of my lifter clearances and everything is out of spec except for two of the exhaust lifters which are at the upper limit. I am only losing 1 qt every ~4k miles. Would you advise doing this work or just keep driving the car?
Also, Thank you for the heads up on the Snap-on tool. I do have a question, though. The Valve Master Valve Keeper tool is labeled as being specifically made for the 2AZFE due to "the keepers being set deep inside the retainer"... Does this really matter? Will the Snap-on work just as well? Also, how much air pressure should I use to keep the valves in place?
Thank you for your help!
In my opinon just keep on driving it. Valve stem seals arent goign to really affect power or anything. 1qt every 4k at 210k is not bad at all.
Which mobil1 are you using? You should be running 10w30 high mileage. If your not that's part of your problem. The high mileage additive will swell those valve stems enough to slow it down considerably. It'll take 3-4k miles to feel the affect after switching over.
If all else fails run 10w40 high mileage. But this is last resort if you start burning more then 1qt.
Its a lot of work to change those seals and a decent chunk of parts money since you have to take the timing chain off.
It appears to me that the company I linked to manufactured their own tool in house (A rarity these days). I also know that the Snap-on tool is made in the USA as well but it looks different compared to the Valve Master tool. Valve Master makes two different 6mm valve keeper tools... a generic one and one specifically for the 2AZFE.
yes, but that tool company CAN BE the company that makes the tool for snap on, that is something you should keep in mind, then of course, snap on can jack up the price 1,000%..i know...i once owned snap on tools..
Quote:
This is part of the problem... I will probably only get a few uses out of the tool but it will allow me to do the work myself and save some cash unless I don't do it at all.
ok...how many times you gonna use this tool..??? you only have to replace the valve stems seals once......unless you plan on working for your friends cars, and if you do, and something goes wrong..you will "own" that work...... sometimes to be an ounce penny wise, is being a pound foolish when it comes to D.I.Y. repairs...
Quote:
I actually want to avoid removing the head at all costs. I am reading too many horror stories regarding the head stud bolts coming lose that I don't want to do something that may agitate the problem. I also live in the Southwest where everyone wants top dollar for minimal work. I don't trust the shops as they either charge too much, use crappy parts or both. I am basically either going to do the work myself or not at all. The more research I am doing however the easier it seems... Actually, it seems pretty darn simple. I am hesitant due to the cost/benefit and a fear of accidently dropping a valve in the chamber.
yes, the head bolt issues..i can agree...this is why a shop is way better an idea. if you want original quality parts, then the dealership would be the way to go. remember, if you do the job, and YOU screw up, you gotta do it ALL OVER AGAIN, and maybe have to buy additional parts as well. where as if the dealer screws up, the extra costs are typically on them...and since they DO THIS type of work on a regular basis, i think they got a handle on how it's done, where as you will be here (or else where's) asking for advice, and if no one is here to help you, you will be stalled for a long time.
good luck, i wish you well, but i think you'll be back sooner looking for additional help.
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2007 Dodge Caliber
"Silver Bullet"
"Super"
2.4L 4cyl
Linear Mode
