5th & 6th Generation (2002-2006 & 2007-2011)Toyota Camry Discussion for years: 2002-2006 & 2007-2011
Topics of discussion range from fuel economy, safety, modifications, performance all involving America's favorite family car, the Toyota Camry.
After a long trip from Houston to Dallas, my vehicle started to ride rough and eventually die on idle. It seems to idle fine, but then die after the first minute. I am getting code P306 and others all dealing with random misfires and misfires on ALL cylinders. The troubleshooting steps I have taken so far to no avail are:
(1) Replaced spark plugs with pre-gapped iridium
(2) Checked ignition coils
(2) Checked all vacuum hoses and air intake leaks
(3) Changed air filter(not a big deal)
(4) Removed and cleaned the throttle body with carb cleaner thoroughly
(5) Checked the intake manifold for leaks and did not find any.
(6) Computer PCM checked for updates and issues at dealer
The dealer said it needed new fuel injectors, which seemed kindof fishy due to the following symptom:
The car runs GREAT at highway speeds, but it is unable to maintain an idle for an extended period of time and dies due to misfires. I hear a chugging in the engine sometimes.
Due to these symptoms, I self diagnosed this as a fuel regulator?
I am not a mechanic, just a wannabee who is sick of misdiagnosis by so-called master or good mechanics in the area. If it was the injector, how would it run so great at highway speeds?
PLEASE HELP!! I will post a video soon and my findings as they come.
I have the 2AZ-FE 4 cyl. engine, and I am getting 4 ignition coils shipped in tomorrow to ensure that the coils are good, even though it looked to be fine. It seems to be the cheapest, first impact way of going about this and a common problem. I will post the results...
I replaced the fuel injectors and tested the ignition coils. Problem still persists. This seems to be the PCM. Not sure how to go about making sure the PCM is at fault....
After a long trip from Houston to Dallas, my vehicle started to ride rough and eventually die on idle. It seems to idle fine, but then die after the first minute. I am getting code P306 and others all dealing with random misfires and misfires on ALL cylinders. The troubleshooting steps I have taken so far to no avail are:
(1) Replaced spark plugs with pre-gapped iridium
(2) Checked ignition coils
(2) Checked all vacuum hoses and air intake leaks
(3) Changed air filter(not a big deal)
(4) Removed and cleaned the throttle body with carb cleaner thoroughly
(5) Checked the intake manifold for leaks and did not find any.
(6) Computer PCM checked for updates and issues at dealer
The dealer said it needed new fuel injectors, which seemed kindof fishy due to the following symptom:
The car runs GREAT at highway speeds, but it is unable to maintain an idle for an extended period of time and dies due to misfires. I hear a chugging in the engine sometimes.
Due to these symptoms, I self diagnosed this as a fuel regulator? I am not a mechanic, just a wannabee who is sick of misdiagnosis by so-called master or good mechanics in the area. If it was the injector, how would it run so great at highway speeds?
PLEASE HELP!! I will post a video soon and my findings as they come.
Quote:
Originally Posted by csvochak
I have the 2AZ-FE 4 cyl. engine, and I am getting 4 ignition coils shipped in tomorrow to ensure that the coils are good, even though it looked to be fine. It seems to be the cheapest, first impact way of going about this and a common problem. I will post the results...
Quote:
Originally Posted by csvochak
I replaced the fuel injectors and tested the ignition coils. Problem still persists. This seems to be the PCM. Not sure how to go about making sure the PCM is at fault....
ok..i "bold and underlined" some of your comments.
although only in the VERY TINIEST way i can agree with you about "misdiagnoses"....WTF are you doing..when YOU ADMIT YOU AIN'T NO MECHANIC...????
YOU, YOURSELF ARE MISDIAGNOSING a problem in which most likely WOULD HAVE BEEN DIAGNOSED CORRECTLY at a repair garage, dealership, or independent...
so therefore, YOU'RE WORSE THAN A PROFESSIONAL MECHANIC..>!!!!!!
what YOU ARE DOING, is throwing out good money for piss poor diagnoses......sooner or later, you're going to replace the engine because YOU CANNOT FIGURE OUT your problem....
NOW, YOU THINK, it's the PCM...?? and if you misdiagnose THAT.....(after spending MORE MONEY)...what will you do...??
sorry dude, but you're not learning anything here but how to spend money needlessly....
i hope you have deep pockets......
you SHOULD HAVE WAITED for someone HERE to work you through this nonsense. but the old saying, "haste makes waste"...certainly applies to you, now doesn't it..????
Ok, I hear you. I said it was the fuel regulator with a question mark afterwards ???. I was guessing. I did not replace that. The dealership diagnosis I paid for came back as faulty fuel injectors and they recommended replacing all of them. So I replaced them myself and still have the same exact issue. I posed this thread not to say I have already diagnosed the issue, but to seek help. I am posting the progress to possibly help others with same issue. If you would like to help, thanks, but if you want to make me feel stupid and not offer any advice to a confessed amateur, then please keep your comments to yourself. I am on here for help, not chastisement. The car is still in the shop and awaiting diagnosis by a toyota dealership who made the diagnosis of fuel injectors falsely. Any HELP is appreciated. Thanks
Ok, I hear you. I said it was the fuel regulator with a question mark afterwards ???. I was guessing. I did not replace that. The dealership diagnosis I paid for came back as faulty fuel injectors and they recommended replacing all of them. So I replaced them myself and still have the same exact issue. I posed this thread not to say I have already diagnosed the issue, but to seek help. I am posting the progress to possibly help others with same issue. If you would like to help, thanks, but if you want to make me feel stupid and not offer any advice to a confessed amateur, then please keep your comments to yourself. I am on here for help, not chastisement. The car is still in the shop and awaiting diagnosis by a toyota dealership who made the diagnosis of fuel injectors falsely. Any HELP is appreciated. Thanks
I doubt that all 4 injectors could go bad at the same time. You definitely wasted your money!
The problem sounds like fuel related.
On the mean time try to compare resistance for all coils.
Good luck,
Sam
__________________
2004 Toyota Camry LE
1999 Honda Accord LX
1992 Subaru Loyale
2010 Subaru Forester
The Following User Says Thank You to somick For This Useful Post:
Thank you for the reply. I realize I probably wasted my money. I replaced the 4 injectors by buying 4 reman parts from rockauto. It was 150 total for all 4 instead of 150/piece or 125/piece at autozone. The dealer said all injectors, but I'm pretty disappointed they said all 4 were bad and it wound up that not 1 of them were... If I get it back and the dealer still is wrong, I will check the coil resistance as you suggest, and secondly use the special service tool to check the fuel pressure line for problems w/ fuel pressure delivery
(manual says it is needed). I have been without it now for 3 weeks and would have liked to diagnose this on my own, but full time job and lack of auto repair background takes too much time out of schedule.
i dont understand how you're getting a P0306 code on a 4 cylinder engine pretty sure thats a misfire on cylinder 6
I apologize. I did not have the codes written down, but i had 5 total. I looked them back up. The 5 codes read: misfires on 1, 2, 3, 4, and the last one was random misfires/multiple misfires from the guy at autozone. Nothing but misfires.
I doubt that all 4 injectors could go bad at the same time. You definitely wasted your money!
The problem sounds like fuel related.
Sam
Sam, I just got back my car today from the toyota dealership. They did not have a definitive answer. He said the fuel pressure was fine at idle speed (50 psi) and had no issues with the fuel delivery to the fuel rod (where the pressure is checked) at all. He said it is the ecm. They gave me my money back completely for the misdiagnosis of the previous fuel injector issue and felt bad about it (i did not complain before or after). He tested the coils completely by adding 4 new coils for test purposes and was fine. He even went as far as testing new plugs because he said the new bosch plugs I had in there may have not been reliable. So the ecm is next according to toyota. Anything else I should check guys??? I only have a couple days before I must try, or get a rental car, so i need to act here. Thanks guys
When it starts to misfire at idle if you step on the gas a little would the problem go away? If so maybe check and cleanthe idle air control valve by disassembling it.
If you can locate a scanner and check things like the fuel trim and oxygen sensor readings that might help. Maybe put a timing light on there and at least you can see if voltages are being sent and check the timing as well. Let's say fuel is ok and ignition is ok, then look into air delivery like I mentioned above.
When you have more than one cylinder misfire then the multi-cylinder misfire code will also set. So 5 codes for 4 cylinder misfire is understandable.
The Following User Says Thank You to JohnGD For This Useful Post:
The troubleshooting steps I have taken so far to no avail are:
(1) Replaced spark plugs with pre-gapped iridium
(2) Checked ignition coils
(2) Checked all vacuum hoses and air intake leaks
(3) Changed air filter(not a big deal)
(4) Removed and cleaned the throttle body with carb cleaner thoroughly
(5) Checked the intake manifold for leaks and did not find any.
(6) Computer PCM checked for updates and issues at dealer
The dealer said it needed new fuel injectors, which seemed kindof fishy due to the following symptom:
The car runs GREAT at highway speeds, but it is unable to maintain an idle for an extended period of time and dies due to misfires. I hear a chugging in the engine sometimes.
I am not a mechanic, just a wannabee who is sick of misdiagnosis by so-called master or good mechanics in the area. If it was the injector, how would it run so great at highway speeds?
Quote:
Originally Posted by csvochak
Sam, I just got back my car today from the toyota dealership. They did not have a definitive answer. He said the fuel pressure was fine at idle speed (50 psi) and had no issues with the fuel delivery to the fuel rod (where the pressure is checked) at all. He said it is the ecm. They gave me my money back completely for the misdiagnosis of the previous fuel injector issue and felt bad about it (i did not complain before or after). He tested the coils completely by adding 4 new coils for test purposes and was fine. He even went as far as testing new plugs because he said the new bosch plugs I had in there may have not been reliable. So the ecm is next according to toyota. Anything else I should check guys??? I only have a couple days before I must try, or get a rental car, so i need to act here. Thanks guys
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnGD
When it starts to misfire at idle if you step on the gas a little would the problem go away? If so maybe check and cleanthe idle air control valve by disassembling it.
If you can locate a scanner and check things like the fuel trim and oxygen sensor readings that might help. Maybe put a timing light on there and at least you can see if voltages are being sent and check the timing as well. Let's say fuel is ok and ignition is ok, then look into air delivery like I mentioned above.
When you have more than one cylinder misfire then the multi-cylinder misfire code will also set. So 5 codes for 4 cylinder misfire is understandable.
ok...go back to YOUR posting, where i bold and underlined many things....
2) you checked for vacuum hose and leaks..how did you check these...by eye sight, or using starting fluid..???? if by eye sight..you ain't gonna see much, unless there is a definite break in the hose...what you need to do is, spray a light mist of starting fluid near the hoses, if the idle goes up..you are near a leak, then MORE CLOSE visual is needed.
3)..the air filter..you could have VERY easily unplugged or broken a vacuum hose under there. look again.
4) you removed the throttle body..you could have cracked the gasket enough for there to be a leak, and it is sucking in air, again, use the starter fluid to check it.
5) how did you check the intake manifold for leaks..?? starter fluid...??? or just listening to noises..?? use the starter fluid again.
now...the dealer GAVE YOU BACK your money...!! so you see, even they know what is the right thing to do...so have some faith in them and how they WANT to help you. i DO NOT work in a dealership myself, but i have to have confidence in what they do. not all dealerships have hacks working for them. so lighten up a little on the one YOU deal with....
now do not forget too, that you have a Mass Air Flow sensor..there IS a spray specifically for that...you "can try" to spray that clean as well.
after all of this, it "can be" the ECM, but you still have the IA (idle air control) valve that can also be dirty, or just going bad. so try what the other poster suggested as well. remember, anytime you remove something, that has a gasket on it, you run the chances of breaking that gasket. you may not see the break, but it can be there. gasket leaks anywhere the air can be sucked into the engine, will give you misfires. right now, i would be thinking anywheres in the air inlet areas....that you have already checked out. have you tried to "carefully" retighten the intake manifold nuts/bolts..??? check the hose at the PCV valve, in fact, if that valve is not working properly you may get a misfire from that as well. many times even a "seasoned pro" mechanic over looks some obvious components.
I will quote and answer these now, Thanks for your time!
Quote:
2) you checked for vacuum hose and leaks..how did you check these...by eye sight, or using starting fluid..???? if by eye sight..you ain't gonna see much, unless there is a definite break in the hose...what you need to do is, spray a light mist of starting fluid near the hoses, if the idle goes up..you are near a leak, then MORE CLOSE visual is needed.
I eye and hand checked them with the engine on. I sprayed carb cleaner around the intake manifold to insure its integrity and around the throttle body. The mechanic said he checked the throttle body as well since I had removed it to ensure there were no leaks there. Other vaccuum hoses were checked by hand and eye.
Quote:
3)..the air filter..you could have VERY easily unplugged or broken a vacuum hose under there. look again.
I will look again when I get off work
Quote:
4) you removed the throttle body..you could have cracked the gasket enough for there to be a leak, and it is sucking in air, again, use the starter fluid to check it.
will check once again
Quote:
5) how did you check the intake manifold for leaks..?? starter fluid...??? or just listening to noises..?? use the starter fluid again.
carb cleaner
Quote:
now...the dealer GAVE YOU BACK your money...!! so you see, even they know what is the right thing to do...so have some faith in them and how they WANT to help you. i DO NOT work in a dealership myself, but i have to have confidence in what they do. not all dealerships have hacks working for them. so lighten up a little on the one YOU deal with....
Yes, they did. I did not threaten or speak in a dis-satisfied way with them in order to get my money back either. Nice people.
Quote:
now do not forget too, that you have a Mass Air Flow sensor..there IS a spray specifically for that...you "can try" to spray that clean as well.
The mechanic said he put a new one in just to test this because he has them at his disposal, not the problem.
after all of this, it "can be" the ECM, but you still have the
Quote:
IA (idle air control) valve
No mechanical IAC valve on this model year for 4cyl engine. All electronic sensor is on the side of body with electrical connection.
that can also be dirty, or just going bad. so try what the other poster suggested as well. remember, anytime you remove something, that has a gasket on it, you run the chances of breaking that gasket. you may not see the break, but it can be there. gasket leaks anywhere the air can be sucked into the engine, will give you misfires. right now, i would be thinking anywheres in the air inlet areas...
Quote:
.that you have already checked out. have you tried to "carefully" retighten the intake manifold nuts/bolts..???
Will do this as well
Quote:
check the hose at the PCV valve, in fact, if that valve is not working properly you may get a misfire from that as well. many times even a "seasoned pro" mechanic over looks some obvious components.
Now this I have not checked. I removed the hose in order to get to the fuel rail and the hose seemed to have integrity from hand checks. I will unscrew the valve and take a gander at this. THANKS!
carb cleaner DOES Work as well as starter fluid....good that you used it.....
the eyes can miss things, like those tiny cracks underneath a bend in the hose...
keep us up to date..!!
one last thing..i am glad you were cool at the dealer and did not demand your money back. this goes a long way in your future dealings with them...you will see in time to come..!!
Last edited by Glenn8963; 10-18-2011 at 09:03 AM.
The Following User Says Thank You to Glenn8963 For This Useful Post:
Thank you for the reply. I realize I probably wasted my money. I replaced the 4 injectors by buying 4 reman parts from rockauto. It was 150 total for all 4 instead of 150/piece or 125/piece at autozone. The dealer said all injectors, but I'm pretty disappointed they said all 4 were bad and it wound up that not 1 of them were... If I get it back and the dealer still is wrong, I will check the coil resistance as you suggest, and secondly use the special service tool to check the fuel pressure line for problems w/ fuel pressure delivery
(manual says it is needed). I have been without it now for 3 weeks and would have liked to diagnose this on my own, but full time job and lack of auto repair background takes too much time out of schedule.
That might be another problem!
RockAuto is not a place to buy parts. Their data base is very inaccurate. You can buy spark plugs from them but that's about it.
By the way your problem, you mentioned in another post, might be the Bosh plugs.
Good luck,
Sam
__________________
2004 Toyota Camry LE
1999 Honda Accord LX
1992 Subaru Loyale
2010 Subaru Forester
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2002 Camry 4cyl. engine misfires
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