Mystery... - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

prico82 · 10-11-2011, 11:35 PM

I have a mystery noise coming from the left front wheel. Can someone please help as I am heavily frustrated. All help is very much appreciated.

I have a 2002 Toyota Camry, 4 cylinder, SE Model
150,000 miles

It sounds like metal on metal. It only happens at low speeds (less than 20mph). Only happens when I turn the steering wheel right. While I am driving straight, the noise is not there.

Here is what I have changed on my car in the last 3 months:
-New Brake rotors
-New Brake Pads
-New sway bar link
-New sway bar bushing
-New outer tie rod end
-New lower ball joint

More Observations:
-CV joint is not leaking
-Checked the struts for proper movement
-The strut seems properly seated in the bearing plated, nothing broken (under the hood)
-I confirmed that the disc brake shield is not in contact with anything

Am I missing anything? What else could be causing this? Again, I appreciate any help or advise anyone can offer.

Glenn8963 · 10-12-2011, 06:26 AM

well the CV boot does NOT have to be broken, or leaking to have a bad CV joint.

the bigger clamp on the CV boot can be removed (have a new one ready), and pull back the boot. if you find metal filings, the joint is bad.

now, you may be hearing it from the right side....but i suspect it is the left side that is the problem. it is common to hear it from one side, but be the other side that is bad.

given you have all those miles..?? if you do find the CV joint to be bad...??

replace BOTH sides....because sooner or later, the other side will crap out on you as well.

and since you replaced the tie rod end, on one side....if it were me, I'd check that inner tie rod as well, and replace ALL the tie rod ends, and get an alignment...it just makes sense to rebuild the front end.

Luna2 · 10-12-2011, 11:18 AM

Have you checked the run-out on the wheel bearings?

gdanaher · 10-12-2011, 02:16 PM

You say it is metal to metal scraping, so let's key in on that. If the cv joint was bad, you would hear a clicking sound, not a scraping sound, and the clicking would occur normally in one direction or the other but would not be continuous in most cases. Could the piston in the caliper be hanging up, not releasing and allowing the pad to scrape the rotor? It would do it at all speeds but you might not hear it at speed. The wheel bearing would present a rumbling should, not scraping.

Jack the front and well secure with jack stands. Pull the wheel, start the car and put it in gear. Use a hose as a stethoscope and listen for the scrape. have a friend speed and slow the engine to see if the variation changes the sound. and yes, it might be on the other side of the car, but don't continue to throw money at it until you isolate the issue.

molson.david · 10-12-2011, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Could the piston in the caliper be hanging up, not releasing and allowing the pad to scrape the rotor? It would do it at all speeds but you might not hear it at speed. The wheel bearing would present a rumbling should, not scraping.

+100
but,
Sometimes bearing might die quietly or get loose. And when you turning rotor will scrape brake pads even if caliper is ok.
Jack your car and see if you can shake or move wheel with your hands.

John1960 · 10-12-2011, 07:10 PM

Have you checked the backing plate? What work was done b4 this noise surfaced??

prico82 · 10-12-2011, 07:55 PM

Everyone: thanks for your help!!!

John1960: By backing plate do you mean the disc brake shield? If so, yes, I have checked it. It is good. No work was done before this noise surfaced. Since the noise as surfaced I have been replacing parts slowly. Not very expensive when you order from rockauto and install yourself.

Molson/Luna: Wheel will not move in or out, left to right, or top to bottom. I checked for this when I was replacing the rotors and had them off the car. Yesterday with the wheel on, I jacked the car up, turned the wheel right, and moved it to see if anything was hitting. It looked like everything was clearing. I eliminated the bearing based off the sound and the fact that there was just no play.

gdanaher: I was on the same page with you. The fact that the cv joint was not leaking and this is not a clicking sound made me eliminate it as the culprit. The caliper is something I checked as well. It is not seized. I checked all the slider pins and the piston. Good idea: I think I will try to jack the car up and have a buddy run it to see if we can verify sound is on left.

Glenn8963: I will still check the CV joint. Its not hard to do and the boot is fairly cheap. Will let you know what if this ends up being the problem. But typically with this part the sound I have always heard has been a clicking sound, but who knows.

I will keep you all posted. This weekend will be a good time for me to get at it again. I am just running out of ideas as to what this could be. My dad tells me to wait until whatever it is making the sound breaks, but I dont like that idea very much.

Glenn8963 · 10-13-2011, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prico82

Everyone: thanks for your help!!!

John1960: By backing plate do you mean the disc brake shield? If so, yes, I have checked it. It is good. No work was done before this noise surfaced. Since the noise as surfaced I have been replacing parts slowly. Not very expensive when you order from rockauto and install yourself.

Molson/Luna: Wheel will not move in or out, left to right, or top to bottom. I checked for this when I was replacing the rotors and had them off the car. Yesterday with the wheel on, I jacked the car up, turned the wheel right, and moved it to see if anything was hitting. It looked like everything was clearing. I eliminated the bearing based off the sound and the fact that there was just no play.

gdanaher: I was on the same page with you. The fact that the cv joint was not leaking and this is not a clicking sound made me eliminate it as the culprit. The caliper is something I checked as well. It is not seized. I checked all the slider pins and the piston. Good idea: I think I will try to jack the car up and have a buddy run it to see if we can verify sound is on left.

Glenn8963: I will still check the CV joint. Its not hard to do and the boot is fairly cheap. Will let you know what if this ends up being the problem. But typically with this part the sound I have always heard has been a clicking sound, but who knows.

I will keep you all posted. This weekend will be a good time for me to get at it again. I am just running out of ideas as to what this could be. My dad tells me to wait until whatever it is making the sound breaks, but I dont like that idea very much.

yes, a clicking sound will come from the OUTER CV joint, the INNER one will make a clunking sound....but if dry you will hear a different noise. this could also be the "hub bearing" in the front as well. they are "lubed for life", so a replacement is the only cure for that.

you need not remove any CV joint boot, only the big clamp, and pull back the boot. you should be able to buy replacement clamps at just about any auto parts store.

now you know, you also have bearings in the transmission case as well, where the axles go into the transmission. one of those can be bad too.

ball joints will also make a "metal on metal" sound. you did replace ONE ball joint, but it may have been the wrong side. look for rust coming from the boot, or even a slight tear in the boot. you would need to jack up the car, bu the lower control arm, about maybe 2-3 inches, place a pry bar under the tire and try to "lift" the tire. brute force IS NOT needed, normal force will do. if the wheel moves up/down by more than say 1/2 of an inch..?? you have a bad ball joint.

take your time in locating the noise, if you have a helper, even better for you. you can have the helper in the car, turning the wheel left and right several times while you listen for noises. make sure the car is up on jack stands under the control arm, you do not need the engine running. . you may want to put your palm on the tire to "feel" for any roughness or binding.

prico82 · 10-16-2011, 08:52 PM

Hey all,
So i took a look again this weekend.
I removed the clamp from the CV joint and pulled the boot back. everything looked good under there.

One observation that I made which I hadn't noticed before is that the outer edge of my front left tire is wearing quickly. Does this point to the control arm? Would a bad control arm cause a metal on metal sound? The bushing appear to be intact, although there is some cracking going on there.

I was looking at the haynes book regarding removal of the control arm and it says that you only need to remove the engine mounts if the toyota is 2004 or later. Mine is a 2002, but it seems like the engine mount is still in the way when removing the first bolt from the front end of the control arm. Am I missing something or is the Haynes manual wrong? Haynes doesnt show how they removed theirs, just tells you to remove it.