Auto Trans- Drain/Refill, or Flush?

[Gearhead Jim]

Our 2005 Camry V6 with auto trans now has 50k miles, I'd like to have the transmission serviced.

The local dealership pushes a flush rather than the old drain/filter/refill.

What does the Toyota Service manual recommend?
I usually prefer just the drain/filter/refill method, but if Toyota recommends the flush then I'll do it that way.

BTW, any other services your would recommend beyond what's in the Owner's manual?

Thanks!

[JohnGD]

The ATF "flush" should really be a "fluid exchange". They hook up a machine to the ATF cooler lines and pump out about 10-12 qts of fluid while adding new fluid via the return line. Some of the new fluid will get mixed and pumped out, that's why they need to pump in 10-12 qts.

IMO its better to drop the pan and replace the felt filter. If you DIY you can drop the pan and replace it later after the system has clean fluid in it. Or do 2 drains/refills, and on the 3rd replace the filter. The filter and gasket is about $20 in the aftermarket.

Besides the dino T-IV ATF, consider using Valvoline MaxLife fully synthetic ATF that's suitable for T-IV and WS.

[touringcamry]

A drain and refill will exchange 30 to 40 percent of the fluid -- I don't know the exact number.

There is DIY way to remove fluid via cooler line if you like, but you have to be careful about doing it to ensure you don't release too much fluid at once. Get a milk jug, or something with at least 2 qt capacity, eg soda bottle, and mark off 1 qt. I like milk jug because of the wider base. Insert the feed line from the cooler into the bottle and run the engine until you get 1 qt into the bottle and and then shut off the car. This takes only about 10 seconds so keep a close eye on what you are doing or get someone to help you out. Replace fluid with fresh transmission fluid through the dipstick tube. Repeat until you've gone through about 8 to 12 quarts.

Someone did a write up with pictures for a older model, but your process will be similar.

[mmm666]

Don't worry too much.. I recommend you should do drain/refill with Toyota T-IV every 30k. It is very very easy. You can do it yourself.

1st. remove the transmission drain bolt using 10mm Hex Allen Key. under the engine.
2nd. let it drain/then put the bolt back.
3rd. Put back 3.7 qt of t-iv using funnel from the transmission dip stick hole
you are done.

[89molavi]

Originally Posted by mmm666

Don't worry too much.. I recommend you should do drain/refill with Toyota T-IV every 30k. It is very very easy. You can do it yourself.

1st. remove the transmission drain bolt using 10mm Hex Allen Key. under the engine.
2nd. let it drain/then put the bolt back.
3rd. Put back 3.7 qt of t-iv using funnel from the transmission dip stick hole
you are done.

That, and then maybe check the level too just to be sure. Since you are doing your first change at 50K, you can repeat one sooner, like in another 5-10K miles and take it from there.

I did a pan drop and change at 60K, the pan bolts are not the easiest to get off on one side, so I am not planning on doing that again.

[Donald E. George]

Get the AT fluid up to operating temperature,pull the AT drain plug and drain. Measure the amount of fluid you drained and fill with a like amount. Run the car for a few minutes,a day,week whatever. Repeat procedure two or three more times and you have done what a flush machine does. Never have an AT flushed with a machine using a flushing agent. Use a new 18mm gasket on the drain plug. Torque is 36 ft. lbs..Regards

[isrb710]

Originally Posted by 89molavi

That, and then maybe check the level too just to be sure. Since you are doing your first change at 50K, you can repeat one sooner, like in another 5-10K miles and take it from there.

I did a pan drop and change at 60K, the pan bolts are not the easiest to get off on one side, so I am not planning on doing that again.

I saw in the FSM that they say to put "Seal packing:
THREE BOND 2430 or equivalent" on the bolts and re-install them in 10 minutes or less. Did you do this? I don't even think I could install the bolts above the subframe in 30 minutes, much less 10!!

Any advice?

Thanks, Ron

P.S. I only have access to that chapter.

[Gearhead Jim]

Several people preferred doing a drain/refill instead of a "fluid exchange" or flush, but only one person mentioned replacing the filter.

There IS a filter in the automatic trans, right?

[isrb710]

Yes, there is a filter. I got it changed last Sunday, along with a new gasket and fluid change. I took out 6 quarts (out of 8.7) in my V6 tranny. The old filter was a dark red, but overall looked pretty good. (A video I watched showed one that was BLACK!!) There was 1/8” of metal filing sludge on both magnets, but that was all I found!

I checked it after a 10 mile test drive and it was 1/4 " too high on the dipstick. It shifts normally per my wife - it's her car. It shifts at a little higher RPM's than my Chrysler 300M, so I was a little concerned. Should I drain out a little to get it to the top of the Hot high mark?

To get to the bolts above the subframe, I jacked up the transmission about 1/2" by putting a 10" 4x4 between the jack and the transmission. I was able to raise it WITHOUT loosening any motor mounts. (Thanks to dz63 for that tip!) I was NOT able to torque the bolts above the subframe, but I torqued the rest to 69 in-lbs per the FSM. I did the "subframe" bolts last, so I had a good feel for about how much torque to use. I rotated installing the bolts around the pan and put a dab of permatex ultra black on each bolt. (JohnGD, I saw your post that I did NOT need the permatex AFTER I was done. NEXT time, I won't use any permatex. Thanks for that tip!) To make sure I torqued them all, I put a chalkmark on the bolthead after torquing it.

I wedged a couple of plastic trim tools below under the subrame bolts to get enough upward force to get the bolts started. The set is available from Harbor Freight for $6.99 if you need some dash trim removal tools that are easy on your dash. They're the 2nd and 3rd from the left in the picture at the below link.

http://www.harborfreight.com/5-piece...set-67021.html

I replaced the fluid with synthetic Valvoline MaxLife DEX/MERC ATF. $18/gallon at Advance Auto Parts. I got about 40% off of that using the BIG30 discount code ($30 off a $75+ purchase). With the discount, it worked out to $2.80/qt! Thanks JohnGD for recommending it. Better fluid than T-IV and half the price!

Improvements for Next Time

I won’t change the filter. I will change it after either 60K or 90K miles. If you’ve changed fluid at 90K or 100K intervals, how did your filter look?

I will lay the gasket out flat ahead of time. It was folded up in the box and it didn’t want to lay flat on the pan. So I laid the pan on it while I went to eat a leisurely supper. But I may not want to wait an hour next filter change!

I will put the gasket on top of the pan and push all the bolts through. The gasket will hold them in place. Then I’ll put the pan in place. I found it difficult to push many of the bolts through. There was a little bit of gasket that stuck into the bolt hole. Since I don’t need any permatex on the bolts, this should make the job much easier.

[isrb710]

bump

[JohnGD]

Just caught up with this thread. hehe

It's a real pain having to to jack things up to get to the bolts, but if the car is a keeper I'd change the filter say every 40-50K miles on a synthetic ATF like Valvoline. (I'm glad the discount worked )

That's the interval enthusiasts like to use on European cars. Those "lifetime fill" ZF transmissions are really good, and the ATF is like $30-50/liter. That's a few hundred dollars on parts and fluid each time. Must be pocket change.

Check the ATF level a couple more times for a consistent read before you loosen the drain plug to drain out maybe 8oz at a time. Shouldn't take more than 16oz to get it back in range. I'd only compare shift points/rpms on the same make and model.

As far as starting the bolts, can you use just a socket with an extension (3" or 6")? Or do you mean the one by the subframe that's hard to get to?

Periodically check the ATF level and color on the dipstick. Do a drain and refill say after 20K miles (usually darker/dirtier than on the dipstick) and decide if you want to keep the 20K mile drain intervals with a filter change either 40K or 60K miles. Or maybe move to 30K drains and 60K filter intervals based on driving condition. This method is more than enough for most, but you can always get an ATF analysis and look at the wear particle counts. hehe

[isrb710]

Originally Posted by JohnGD

As far as starting the bolts, can you use just a socket with an extension (3" or 6")? Or do you mean the one by the subframe that's hard to get to?

John,

I had difficulty with all of them, since my gasket was slightly out of alignment with the holes. I started the easy-to-get at bolts with a 1/4" drill attachment and a socket.

But I had MAJOR difficulty with the ones above the subframe. Those are the ones where I used the plastic pry tools to get enough upward force to push the bolt through the rubber holes in the gasket. I didn't have enough room to get my finger or thumb under the bolt due to the small amount of clearance - maybe 1/8". So using my gear-wrench 10 mm ratcheting wrench and prying up on the bolt with the pry tools got the last 2 or 3 bolts started.

FOR ANYONE WANTING TO CHANGE THEIR OWN TRANSMISSION FLUID/FILTER - Advance Auto Parts has the 5 piece set including the all-important 10 mm wrench on sale for $14.99 now. Buy enough other items online to get to a 40 % discount level and that would make it $9 for all 5 ratcheting wrenches. Promo code CCABIN will probably still work.

Ron

[89molavi]

Now after doing the pan drop and filter change, on the next ATF drain I am getting 5 qts of oil out instead of 4. Anybody else had this issue? I used the filter from autozone.

[JohnGD]

Unless before the first drain the ATF level was low it's hard to think there is a 1qt difference or that the filter is responsible. Because even when you remove the filter a little more comes out and that's not 1qt. So don't really know.

How's the ATF level now when the engine is at operating temp? Between the HOT marks?

[89molavi]

Yes, between the hot marks. So in essence, after the new filter, just opening the drain plug gives me 5 qt of oil. I am worried that the filter is not seated properly.