Diagnose horrible steering wheel vibration

[thrawnis]

Ok everyone, I really need your help on this issue before I dump any more money into my car...

Around 30k miles ago (or so) I had some TSW 19" wheels installed and about 1k miles later, I had H&R lowering springs installed. Shortly thereafter, I've had a very inconsistent but horrible steering wheel vibration. Most often this happens when I'm going between 45-85mph. But the strangest thing is that the vibration doesn't always happen! Sometimes I will be on the same stretch of road and the steering wheel will strongly and consistently vibrate as if I had warped rotors. Other times it will be nearly as smooth as glass.

Not sure if this is related but after the most recent set of tires were installed (around 1.5k miles ago) the car now pulls fairly strongly to the left. I've had two shops do three alignments and the alignment seems to be ok.

Last note: My primary auto repair shop showed something to me the other day. There is a bushing between the vertical steering rack and the horizontal tie-rods, etc. Whenever I turn the wheel, the bushing flexes/stretches noticeably as much as 3mm but there are no visible tears/breaks in the bushing. The shop visually checked the tie rods and they seemed ok also. A couple of my friends that know a lot more about cars than me seemed to indicate that this bushing should not move much, if at all. Do you guys know anything about this?

I am desperate to have this issue identified so I may eventually get this fixed. Can anyone please give me any suggestions?

Thanks!!


-----

Below is a list of the things my car has gone through since we first noticed this issue:
- Three different tires and sizes have been used on these wheels and all have exhibited the same problem over the past 30k+ miles.
- Tires balanced and rotated by several different shops by traditional and Hunter road-force balancing machines. No difference.
- Two shops have cross-rotated my directional tires to see if wheels/tires were the problem but the car still pulled and steering wheel still vibrated.
- My TSW wheels/tires have been put on another car and no vibrations were present.
- Tried another car's wheels/tires and still had the same problem but it was slightly less intensive.
- Wheels aligned three times by two different shops since I had the current tire set installed about 1.5k miles ago. No difference other than the introduction of the car now pulls to the left.
- Replaced brake rotors and pads. No difference.
- Front and rear suspension checked and everything seemed ok.
- Removed Ultra Racing Strut Bar for several thousand miles. Minor vibration reduction but nothing major.
- Replaced hub-centric rings that came with TSW wheels with new rings from a different brand. Zero difference.
- Many other things checked but can't recall exactly what.

[fatngs]

i actually used to have the same problem when my car was younger...... i ended up replacing the tires and it was cured

[leakyseals]

Jack it up and perform a wheel bearing test. See if there is any play or noise.

[thrawnis]

Originally Posted by fatngs

i actually used to have the same problem when my car was younger...... i ended up replacing the tires and it was cured

I'm already on my third set of tires since I starting having this issue.

Originally Posted by leakyseals

Jack it up and perform a wheel bearing test. See if there is any play or noise.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll have someone check into this although I don't have any noise coming from the wheels. I was told that bad wheel bearings normally are accompanied by a grinding type of noise.

Any other ideas?

[leakyseals]

Originally Posted by thrawnis

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll have someone check into this although I don't have any noise coming from the wheels. I was told that bad wheel bearings normally are accompanied by a grinding type of noise.

Sometimes they grind sometimes not, depends. You have oversized rims and a modified suspension. I'm sure its for more than looks. Your putting far greater force on the bearings than it was designed for. Worth verifying.

[arabianobsession]

I agree with this ^. It is a definite possibility and worth taking a look.

[gdanaher]

You reallly need to see if the issue is limited to one side or both sides. Jack the front of the car, block the rear and set the brake, remove one wheel and run it up to see if the problem still appears. If so, replace that wheel and remove the other and repeat the spin up. If it is limited to a single side then you can at least focus on anything that might be odd about that one side as compared to the side that is running normally.

Secondly, while there, check any play in tie rod ends, and don't dismiss the possibility that you have a bad outboard cv joint. This is not a normal symptom for a bad joint, but then this isn't a normal problem.

[thrawnis]

Originally Posted by leakyseals

Sometimes they grind sometimes not, depends. You have oversized rims and a modified suspension. I'm sure its for more than looks. Your putting far greater force on the bearings than it was designed for. Worth verifying.

Originally Posted by arabianobsession

I agree with this ^. It is a definite possibility and worth taking a look.

Thanks guys. A friend of mine has a same-gen, stock Camry that I'm going to try and borrow his factory wheels for a day and see if I can replicate the left-side pull and vibration. While the car is in the air, I'll check to see if there is any play in the wheels and/or noise.

Originally Posted by gdanaher

You reallly need to see if the issue is limited to one side or both sides. Jack the front of the car, block the rear and set the brake, remove one wheel and run it up to see if the problem still appears. If so, replace that wheel and remove the other and repeat the spin up. If it is limited to a single side then you can at least focus on anything that might be odd about that one side as compared to the side that is running normally.

Secondly, while there, check any play in tie rod ends, and don't dismiss the possibility that you have a bad outboard cv joint. This is not a normal symptom for a bad joint, but then this isn't a normal problem.

I'll have my friend help me check the tie rods and CV joints to see what might be going on while we are swapping the wheels also.


Thanks for the suggestions everyone! Please keep them coming if you can think of anything else.

[thrawnis]

A few updates on this situation:

- I ended up temporarily swapping some stock 17" wheels for about three days from a friend's stock Camry and I noticed a dramatic reduction in steering wheel vibration. Also, the stock Camry had my TSW 19" wheels and it also showed almost no steering wheel vibration. The tiny bit of vibration that was still there could have easily been from the brake rotors or something.

- Before taking off the wheels, I checked for any play or any sound/scratching that would indicate wheel bearing damage. There was minor scratching from the brake pads and absolutely no movement otherwise.

- I forgot to check the tie rods again to see what is going on so I will do that this weekend when I try to fix some of this brake squealing at low speeds.

- Most importantly: Another friend suggested that maybe the stock 76 lb/ft torque specs for the lug nuts was too low even though I showed him the manual which indicated that this was accurate. I torqued the lugs down to 85 lb/ft and noticed that 60-80% or more of the vibration is completely gone (somehow depending on road conditions)! I will leave it at this number for now, I guess.

Thanks for the suggestions and keep them coming!

[leakyseals]

Interesting. was reading a story how using the wrong lug nuts can lead to different vibrations including backing off, improper balancing, etc. but I just don't see how tight vs tighter would matter. If the rim became loose there would be a whole lot more problems than vibration. I rotate my own tires and never check, use a tire Iron, and the feel after years of doing it. Maybe I should check it. Its definitely a unique problem.

[thrawnis]

Originally Posted by leakyseals

Interesting. was reading a story how using the wrong lug nuts can lead to different vibrations including backing off, improper balancing, etc. but I just don't see how tight vs tighter would matter. If the rim became loose there would be a whole lot more problems than vibration. I rotate my own tires and never check, use a tire Iron, and the feel after years of doing it. Maybe I should check it. Its definitely a unique problem.

I have a fairly new Craftsman torque wrench and a slightly older one from a different brand. I checked and the two wrenches were within a few lb/ft of each other so the numbers can't be that far off.

The Gorilla lug nuts have already been replaced with the exact same brand and model due to some other problems I was having with my car a couple years ago. Maybe I should try a different brand of lugs to see if the ones that I have aren't quite as flush as they should be for the wheels I have...

[julyaric720]

Jack it up and perform a wheel bearing test.

[leakyseals]

Originally Posted by thrawnis

I have a fairly new Craftsman torque wrench and a slightly older one from a different brand. I checked and the two wrenches were within a few lb/ft of each other so the numbers can't be that far off.

The Gorilla lug nuts have already been replaced with the exact same brand and model due to some other problems I was having with my car a couple years ago. Maybe I should try a different brand of lugs to see if the ones that I have aren't quite as flush as they should be for the wheels I have...

Yeah, some have angular heads that can expand the lug hole and loosen. While others with a flat head let the rim move on the lug slightly. The only other thing I can think of would be the mating surface between the rim and the hub. for example a metal or steel rim will be smooth, where an aluminum rim may be porous. The wheel may be tight, but slightly lifted off the hub in an area causing a wobble.

[Frodo65]

Originally Posted by thrawnis

A few updates on this situation:

- I ended up temporarily swapping some stock 17" wheels for about three days from a friend's stock Camry and I noticed a dramatic reduction in steering wheel vibration. Also, the stock Camry had my TSW 19" wheels and it also showed almost no steering wheel vibration. The tiny bit of vibration that was still there could have easily been from the brake rotors or something.

- Before taking off the wheels, I checked for any play or any sound/scratching that would indicate wheel bearing damage. There was minor scratching from the brake pads and absolutely no movement otherwise.

- I forgot to check the tie rods again to see what is going on so I will do that this weekend when I try to fix some of this brake squealing at low speeds.

- Most importantly: Another friend suggested that maybe the stock 76 lb/ft torque specs for the lug nuts was too low even though I showed him the manual which indicated that this was accurate. I torqued the lugs down to 85 lb/ft and noticed that 60-80% or more of the vibration is completely gone (somehow depending on road conditions)! I will leave it at this number for now, I guess.

Thanks for the suggestions and keep them coming!

I believe Toyota uses hub-centric wheel mounting -that's where the hub is fairly tight, and the wheel studs don't position the wheel so much. If your aftermarket wheels are 'loose' on the hub, or the hub spacers are needed, it would explain some of the behavior - excessive radial runout will cause all sorts of vibration.

[camyD72]

Guys , Are Steering Wheel compatible to Left Hand Drive Cars and Right Hand Drive Car ?