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5th & 6th Generation (2002-2006 & 2007-2011) Toyota Camry Discussion for years: 2002-2006 & 2007-2011 Topics of discussion range from fuel economy, safety, modifications, performance all involving America's favorite family car, the Toyota Camry.

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Old 03-26-2012, 02:17 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Rough Idle 2009 Camry

Hey guys,

I have been searching and it seems I am not the only one who has a rough idle with the I4. It is very rough even without the A/C on. I can see the dash shaking, I can feel it in the steering wheel, brake pedal, seat, and arm rest.

The dealership cleaned my throttle body and MAP sensor (They forgot to put one of the screws back in the MAP that kinda pissed me off). This is the third time they have cleaned them. When they returned it to me I told them to keep it until it is fixed. So they took it back in and decided that it might be the motor mounts so they went ahead and replaced them aside from the dogbone or whatever it's called.

When they returned the vehicle it was still having the same issue, they told me that its just the nature of the beast and to live with it. Well my neighbor has the exact same car, and yes it does have a SLIGHT vibration in gear but nothing like mine. I can't stand this car I really wish I would have bought something else.

I currently have 70,000 miles and for the last three oil changes I have been running Full Synthetic in hopes it would help but it has made no difference.

Just a note I have had multiple problems with this particular dealer lying to me. They even ripped up my passenger seat and would not fix it they said it was pre existing. I am over the seat I don't care anymore but I am tired of the rough idle. I plan on taking into another dealer but I am hesitant because they told me if there is no real problem I will have to pay in full for the diagnostic.

Last edited by pkrainert; 03-26-2012 at 02:53 PM.
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Old 03-26-2012, 03:18 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Think you mean MAF sensor? Its really hard to get rid of on these I4's. I think to some extent they all shake some, because its inline vs a v. I could go on and on what it might be. A recent thread in here it was a bad coil. On mine it was a combination of things, from the TB cleaning to oil that was tooooooo thick...previous owner was hiding a consumption problem. That thick oil (and sludge!) was bogging it down. Could be AC compressor clutch or something on the serp is gone causing load. Maybe one of the oil consumption TSBs, or another TSB out there for this car. Maybe a former owner jammed a screwdriver in the Electronic throttle body and destroyed the motor. (very possible as its electronic, not mechanical, no cable to open plates). A Vacuum leak somewhere. Sludge/oil consumption thick oil mess. All of the above.

I think the best thing to do is a process of elimination. First I would have them check for any pending CEL's, get it put it on a reader. Then smoke test for vacuum leaks, change one coil, pass it through...then....whats up with the oil? weight? type? burn oil?

Add some info here, see where it takes you. may be something easy who knows..
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Old 03-26-2012, 03:30 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leakyseals View Post
Think you mean MAF sensor? Its really hard to get rid of on these I4's. I think to some extent they all shake some, because its inline vs a v. I could go on and on what it might be. A recent thread in here it was a bad coil. On mine it was a combination of things, from the TB cleaning to oil that was tooooooo thick...previous owner was hiding a consumption problem. That thick oil (and sludge!) was bogging it down. Could be AC compressor clutch or something on the serp is gone causing load. Maybe one of the oil consumption TSBs, or another TSB out there for this car. Maybe a former owner jammed a screwdriver in the Electronic throttle body and destroyed the motor. (very possible as its electronic, not mechanical, no cable to open plates). A Vacuum leak somewhere. Sludge/oil consumption thick oil mess. All of the above.

I think the best thing to do is a process of elimination. First I would have them check for any pending CEL's, get it put it on a reader. Then smoke test for vacuum leaks, change one coil, pass it through...then....whats up with the oil? weight? type? burn oil?

Add some info here, see where it takes you. may be something easy who knows..
It could be the Mass Airflow Sensor but they told me that it was the manifold absolute pressure sensor that they cleaned along with the throttle body.

I completely understand that the I4's all shake to some extent my last two cars were 2008 Corolla and a 2002 Camry both had a slightly rough idle but hardly noticeable.

I have been running 5w20 synthetic for some time, should I be using something else? I have had no problem with oil consumption that I am aware of.

If the throttle body was tampered with how would I figure this out? And as far as a vacuum leak I have no idea where to even start looking for one and am unfamiliar with a smoke test but I am willing to try it.

I have had this car in about 10 times and every time it has had no pending CEL codes
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Old 03-26-2012, 03:33 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I asked them if it was a MAF and they told me that is is a MAP sensor. I was under the impression that a MAP sensor goes directly into the manifold but they said the one on my intake tube is a MAP sensor. They also told me the car was fixed 10 times and its not :/
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Old 03-26-2012, 07:49 PM   #5 (permalink)
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thought the MAP was replaced by the MAF in 99..Usually cleaned along with the TB. Looks like this.


Worry about that later...

Elimination...
Oil - Good!
TB/IAC cleaned? Check. Wont hurt to take the intake off, put it back on. May uncover a hose off, etc.
CEL codes? any "pending"? (not throwong a cel, but noted by the ecu, requires code reader)
can you make a video and put it up here?
Coil? They can cause a horrible skip.
Injectors gummed up? maybe. AAP is offering the 2 for 1 techron complete fuel injector bottles. Techron has PEA, the only patented chemical known to clean up gas related deposits. Throw them in 2 consecutive tanks.
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Old 03-26-2012, 08:00 PM   #6 (permalink)
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My I4 shakes too, but just a normal I4 shake. It was worse when I bought it, so I cleaned the TB and MAF sensor which helped. They just rebuilt my engine under the oil consumption TSB and it runs much smoother. At times its 98% smooth, other times its 85% smooth even with no A/C. I'm not sure what changes that causes the vibration to change, but something does.

This is my first I4, it has taken a while to get used to the vibration as compared to the V6 in my other two Toyotas.
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Old 03-26-2012, 08:04 PM   #7 (permalink)
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There he is! your year(s), passin the baton!
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Old 03-26-2012, 11:08 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I will give the Techron a try. Not sure if it matters but I only fill up with Chevron, not really because I think its that much better just the two gas stations that are convenient for me on either end of my commute are Chevron lol.

Yes it is that sensor, I said isn't that the MAF and they corrected me twice telling me the technology has changed for this gen of Camry... But like I said they told me a bunch of other lies so this is not surprising lol. It is missing one of the screws after the last service they did. Do you know where I can get a new one?

I really don't know how to go about the piston ring issue if I am not burning any oil... I don't really have anything to go on besides the TSB and I doubt they will want to even touch that if it has no symptoms. I guess I will mention it but it seems like a long shot.

I have had about 8 I4 cars 5 of them Toyota I am more than familiar with the feel of an Inline 4 vs a V6 or V8 which I have had as well Hell I have even had an inline six but that was a BMW so no rough idle lol.

They told me that there were no pending codes when they hooked it up, they have told me this every time I have had it in the shop.

Coil is a possibility but is there a way for me to test it without buying a new one? Also not sure if I would notice a power loss but I feel no power loss compared to other I4 Camry's I have driven. When one of my Maximas coils went out it was more than noticeable.

It is time for me to replace my oil this week anyways so I will take the intake apart while I am at it to take a look.

I wanted to run some Kreen though the crankcase to try and clear that up if there is a significant amount of gunk but I cant get it here in California unfortunately and I do not know of a similar product.

And I will try to get a vid up within the next couple of days.

Thanks guys!!!
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Old 03-26-2012, 11:40 PM   #9 (permalink)
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My I4 has a very minor shake when it is first started on a cold day. Other than that I can't tell if it's running whether in gear or in park which is pretty good for a 4 banger. I know the dodge 4 cyls have a very noticeable shake at all times.
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:26 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aagitch View Post
My I4 has a very minor shake when it is first started on a cold day. Other than that I can't tell if it's running whether in gear or in park which is pretty good for a 4 banger. I know the dodge 4 cyls have a very noticeable shake at all times.
Well sir, for that I envy your situation. Mine is like riding a tractor or something. I just took the intake off and had a look around. It looks perfectly clean. There was no carbon build up on the butterfly valve or the walls of the throttle body. I guess they really did clean it go figure.
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:27 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Also mine is a 2.4 Liter so I am assuming many things are different from your 2.5 but thanks for the input.
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Old 03-27-2012, 02:51 AM   #12 (permalink)
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To clear some things up.

Your car has a MAF (mass air flow sensor with built in IAT sensor) not a MAP (manifold absolute pressure) sensor. MAP is old technology and Toyota stopped using them in the late 90's early 2000's. The MAF replaced both the ancient AFM (air flow meter) and MAP sensor technology on all Toyota vehicles. For a dealership to be wrong on this shows they have no grasp on their product. If it was a service writer I wouldn't be surprised, if it was technician find a new dealer.

As for your issue. It sounds like you have something intermittently wrong. That dealer is lazy or incompetent. You can easily diagnose a problem area with the tech stream Toyota scan tool. That advanced piece of equipment is capable of telling you so much info it is ridiculous. It can tell you injector pulse, which solenoid in the transmission is working, fuel trim, throttle sensor voltage, intake air mass, intake air temp, coolant temp, misfire count and the list goes on. It even allows you to active test a bunch of cool stuff like turning the VVT-i ON/OFF, EVAP system ON/OFF, fuel pump ON/OFF, transmission solenoids ON/OFF, and the list goes on.

It reaches inside and unlocks the ECU for the technician. That technician can easily check the signals and misfire counts and see where your problem areas are.

I say find a competent dealership and even mention this post. This should be a non issue.

Aside from that you may have an intermittently failing part. Something like a fuel injector, coil, VSV, or something is not working all the time. I would suspect a VSV. Throwing parts at a car is never a good idea unless you work at a junkyard.

Good luck.
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:05 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by hardtopte72 View Post
To clear some things up.

Your car has a MAF (mass air flow sensor with built in IAT sensor) not a MAP (manifold absolute pressure) sensor. MAP is old technology and Toyota stopped using them in the late 90's early 2000's. The MAF replaced both the ancient AFM (air flow meter) and MAP sensor technology on all Toyota vehicles. For a dealership to be wrong on this shows they have no grasp on their product. If it was a service writer I wouldn't be surprised, if it was technician find a new dealer.

As for your issue. It sounds like you have something intermittently wrong. That dealer is lazy or incompetent. You can easily diagnose a problem area with the tech stream Toyota scan tool. That advanced piece of equipment is capable of telling you so much info it is ridiculous. It can tell you injector pulse, which solenoid in the transmission is working, fuel trim, throttle sensor voltage, intake air mass, intake air temp, coolant temp, misfire count and the list goes on. It even allows you to active test a bunch of cool stuff like turning the VVT-i ON/OFF, EVAP system ON/OFF, fuel pump ON/OFF, transmission solenoids ON/OFF, and the list goes on.

It reaches inside and unlocks the ECU for the technician. That technician can easily check the signals and misfire counts and see where your problem areas are.

I say find a competent dealership and even mention this post. This should be a non issue.

Aside from that you may have an intermittently failing part. Something like a fuel injector, coil, VSV, or something is not working all the time. I would suspect a VSV. Throwing parts at a car is never a good idea unless you work at a junkyard.

Good luck.
The Service manager was the one who told me I was incorrect and it was a MAP not MAF sensor... Obviously I am done dealing with that particular dealer as they have done nothing to fix any of my issues.

Hopefully when I go to a new dealer, bring in my paper trail and tell them whats up and mention hooking it up to the tech stream Toyota scan tool they will find the problem.

I am not interested in throwing parts at this car, IMO that is never really a great idea unless you are fairly certain that you know the cause of the issue which I do not.

I did stop by another dealer about a week ago and they said the other dealer should have called in a master tech from the outside if they were unable to fix my issue. So that was sort of reassuring I guess... I really don't trust any dealer due to bad experiences in the past.
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Old 03-29-2012, 08:28 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Well my car had the check engine light on. Funny thing is the whole time it was on the vibration was gone. As soon as it went away the shaking came back... Weird. Is that normal for the light to come on for like 40 miles?
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Old 03-30-2012, 02:02 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Well my car had the check engine light on. Funny thing is the whole time it was on the vibration was gone. As soon as it went away the shaking came back... Weird. Is that normal for the light to come on for like 40 miles?
Now you have a code, even if the light is off. If the light went off, it means that the problem that caused the code went away. Intermittent problems are very hard to locate, but not imposable.
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