Proof that there is no such thing as "lifetime" ATF. But would you drain/refill at a shorter interval next? Also, is the factory filter a metal screen or is it using felt like: http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=2001120

 

Was a felt one. You can see it in th picture with the pan pulled. Held in with 2 bolts. Changing it the next time I do a drain and refill. In about 30k miles or so. Pbly just going to get an infra red thermometer and measure trans temp through the pan.

 

Yeah, 30K is a good interval to use for WS and felt filters.

Do calibrate/compare the IR thermometer readings first, because pan color can affect readings.

 

The main reason these transmissions don't have a dipstick is because WS fluid is hygroscopic. Meaning it absorbs moisture. And also it has alcohol in it.

 

Not true

 

Nice post. Is this the same automatic tranny in the 05-10 avalons? Anyone know?

 

It's the U660E. Same 6 speed in the Avalon. But earlier avalons with the 3.5 had a 5 speed.

 

Toyota is adamant enough about WS being hygroscopic that they invented a special tool to pump it in and procedures to dispose of any not out of the bottle WS.

Is it true that's why they don't have dipsticks? Idk. My WS Camry has a dipstick but after 2010 only a handful still do. The sequoia and tundra were the first to eliminate them in 2005.

 

I don't know why the WS is hygroscopic. They could have just used Dexron VI (6), which is considered a superior fluid. Maybe WS has a glycol component? That may be the alcohol OP mentioned.

I think another reason for the plugs-only newer transmissions these days is because these ATFs are "filled for life". :rofl2: (yeah right!)

Many European cars already come without engine oil dipsticks for years. They use oil level and condition sensors. There are also low coolant sensors in the reservoirs. The owners don't need to pop the hood anymore.

 

If I remember correctly, the scanguage2 can read transmission temp when it has the newer software.... I bought my scanguage2 back in 2007. I wonder if I could use that instead of the Toyota tech stream.

 

as long as you can keep the temp between 103-113 i dont see a problem with it. Just gotta be quick with it.

 

just added a little note in bold on the OP that i forgot to menion after filling the trans.

 

No special pump is needed. A tech instructor doesn't lie if he doesn't have a clue on what he is talking about. He is relaying misinformation. I was never impressed by the hierarchy at Toyota. Clueless sheeple from the dealer all the way to corporate. I also found some of their engineers to be arrogrant without the brain power to back up their superiority complex. Take everything you are taught with a grain of salt.

Dipstickless AT is to prevent clueless owners, full service stations, and grease monkeys from overfilling or using leftover 1950's ATF.

Dipstickless engines are next and soon. Drainplugless or fixed plug non-serviceable components are too.

 

My 08 Highlander is also dipstick equipped with factory filled WS. All oils have moisture levels that vary with running condition and water content is measureable when oil/atf is new in the bottle.

The only alcohol that worry about underhood stops my car. The other is mixed 50:50 and doesn't vary much over its usage life.

 

If someone wanted to check the level could you just drive it around for a few miles to get it up to temp and then pull the fill plug to get a idea where the level is.
My car changes gear in odd ways such as it will change back down while accelarating I also have a 2011 venza that does not do this such shifting I had it checked and they said its normal BS on that I have also driven other Camrys and they don't do this downshift while accel. by the way it also flare shifts for the first time going through the gears on a cold start


All this tells me its low in fluid but don't know how to check level and dealer is no help

2011 l4 44000 miles:headbang:

 

If someone wanted to check the level could you just drive it around for a few miles to get it up to temp and then pull the fill plug to get a idea where the level is.
My car changes gear in odd ways such as it will change back down while accelarating I also have a 2011 venza that does not do this such shifting I had it checked and they said its normal BS on that I have also driven other Camrys and they don't do this downshift while accel. by the way it also flare shifts for the first time going through the gears on a cold start


All this tells me its low in fluid but don't know how to check level and dealer is no help

2011 l4 44000 miles:headbang:

4cyl camrys have a tranmission dip stick. Gen 6
V6 camrys do not have a transmission dip stick. Gen 6

Has this changed?

 

Under warranty, its easy to get dealer to check atf level but requires morals/ethics suspension.
Just loosen an atf cooler hose or drain plug and go into dealership for leak repair. Or, splash a little atf at those locations.

Its sad when you have to battle with a dealer or automaker because they removed the dipstick to save a few bucks and to drive up dealer future revenue. We definitely need a class action against all automakers that make it impossible to do a simple level check. Lifetime free checks and top offs sounds like a fair settlement. Any consumer advocates out there???

 

I like that idea on how to get them to check things out the front window motors on my 07 Camry don't sound very good but my dealership wont change them out until they go bad.... assholes. All I need is for them to fail when it starts raining

 

I ended up doing mine today. I did not remove the pan. Just removed the overflow drain and a filler tube (red color) inside the hole once overflow drain is removed.

A little over two quarts came out. Car was jack on the front both sides. I pumped a little over 2 quarts through the filler hole (15/16). To be honest, I didn't test for the overflow with the car idle. I based on what comes out and poured the same amount in (a little more).


I ended up rounding the 6 mm hexagon overflow plug. I had to use a plier to tighten it since its Sunday (couldn't get the part).

Does anybody know what the overflow plug part number is (plug located bottom of pic on link below)? Seems to me from this link, I have to get the whole oil pan.

http://www.trademotion.com/parts/20...com/parts/2007/TOYOTA/CAMRY/LE/?siteid=213983&vehicleid=1433266&diagram=8522260

Maybe go with a universal plug?

http://www.jcwhitney.com/dorman-uni...transmission-pan-drain-plug/p3051732.jcwx?skuId=3405135&filterid=c3758d2168u0j1

Car had 98k miles and oil was dark. Please change your transmission fluid. No such thing as lifetime.

 

Yes it has changed My 2011 4cyl don't have a dipstick best i can tell it has to be checked through a fill hole but it has to be at a the right temp. to check it:headbang:

 

Depending on the transmission there was a way to jumper wires and get the "D" light blinking to tell you the right temp range. But for all practical purposes change and fill it overnight should be fine, IMO.

I wasn't able to find the steps but here is one on the 5-speed from the Taco group:
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/61-2nd-generation-2005/323590-official-how-atf-drain-fill.html

 

Its actually easier to get the level right than a stick. When it overflows its exactly full. They made it so people can't overfill.

 

If its easier then can you give me details on how to check it without a scan tool?
Thanks IN advance:help:

 

I just had my 2009 Camry le 4cyl transmission flushed and filled at 104k. I asked the tech about the filter and he said it was a metal one in the pan and they didn't crack the pan. He hooked it up to his machine and it pushes everything out. They said it was a Toyota specific fluid is that the WS stuff you guys were talking about? I am surprised our 01Malibu had "lifetime" fluid and no dipstick, but the Camry has a dipstick but makes no mention of transmission service. I just did it because 100k is time. They listed 16 qts $128 for the fluid. Should I buy a quart to keep around if it is hard to get everywhere?

 

The Malibu AFAIK didn't get the new 6-speed Hydramatics until 08, but I could be wrong. GM's got the 6 series right, give or take a few teething pains.

The 6-speed Hydramatics got the Dexron VI (6) fluid, good for 100K miles normal service and 50K severe service. The 01 should still be on the 4-speed and Dexron IIIh? I would think the h version is still pretty much a 30/60K fluid.

I don't know if with the WS Toyota started to put a metal strainer in there. But OP said his was a felt filter, and if so it should be changed otherwise it'll plug up with time, especially if you're looking at it with the pan off. Aisin transmissions aren't known for their filtration design the way ZF and Hydramatic are.

WS will become more available as all Toyota/Aisin transmissions switch to it. So I'd just wait until you need to use it. See also: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2777974&page=1 Some are sticklers for OEM fluids, but others have good results with Maxlife.

Never drain the ATF when the transmission is hot. It will drain out the ATF in the cooler and cause problems with the correct level as the thermostat closes an empty cooler. I'd leave it overnight and start the first thing in the morning.

 

Yeah, understand. Your hoping for something simple, hoping its just low fluid and you didn't burn up your tranny. At the miles you state and what I wrote in prior replies, i don't think low fluid is the issue.A cup even 2 cups of fluid wont cause that. it could use a change. that change will also get the level right. search for the DIY on here and change the fluid. quick drain and fill will provide the answer.

 

true Leakeyseals I think its a bad or burnt up trans I have owned the car for a year and put 10000 miles on it and it has done it from day one with me don't know about its first owner what they may have done
but I have had it back to toyota dealer twice about it and they say its normal LOL
So Whats one to do maybe this lifetime fluid :rofl2: is already bad at 35000 miles when i bought the car.

by the way this is my first Toyota in my life and I'm 45 years old

also if you get in the gas a little it changes just fine its only on normal takeoffs that it does this hunt shifting does not seem to slip at all either the dealer says it would slip if its bad ??

 

If they think it is fine buy an extended warranty and romp the heck out of it. Make that thing die and hook em for a tranny. Or trade it in . I wish I would have done that with the Malibu. I had a similar experience, funny shifting had it in a couple three times nothing wrong. Awhile later we put a tranny in it. I changed the tranny fluid every 35-40k in it also.

 

For as cheap as it is I don't mess around with it and have the dealer do it. My 4Runner and Lex both use WS Fluid and they say to change it at 90K. I had the dealer do a fluid exchange on my 4Runner with AMSOILs WS version transmission fluid and it worked out great. The drain and fill doesn't get all the dirty fluid out. The exchange does.

 

I have learned a lot since leaving Toyota.

1. WS is mediocre fluid.
2. The premise or warrant behind using the pump behind WS is that it's hygroscopic. It isn't anymore than another fluid.
3. The real reason to use the pump is awkward fill locations. On the Camry for example it is in the upper part of the driver side wheel well.
4. You can use a good flexible dipstick or other pump to fill the fluid.
5. Lots of service writers are incompetent about the product.
6. Maxlife is a much better fluid. Did I mention WS is mediocre fluid AT BEST?

Paul my advice is to tell them to flush the transmission like normal. It's your money and they should want to take it. If they don't then have another dealer do it and ask for a Toyota MDT (Master Diagnostic Technician) to do it. If they need to add fluid they have a techstream to make filling even easier. All they have to do is act like its a new or rebuilt transmission install. It shouldn't need to be filled anyway as if they use a machine, the only what came out will go back in. So if it wasn't over or under filled it should be mostly fine anyway.

They cannot drain and fill it. Pulling the plug will do nothing. Trust me. They will either have to pump it out like I did or use a machine to flush it out through the cooler.

 

I have learned a lot since leaving Toyota.

1. WS is mediocre fluid.
2. The premise or warrant behind using the pump behind WS is that it's hygroscopic. It isn't anymore than another fluid.
3. The real reason to use the pump is awkward fill locations. On the Camry for example it is in the upper part of the driver side wheel well.
4. You can use a good flexible dipstick or other pump to fill the fluid.
5. Lots of service writers are incompetent about the product.
6. Maxlife is a much better fluid. Did I mention WS is mediocre fluid AT BEST?

Paul my advice is to tell them to flush the transmission like normal. It's your money and they should want to take it. If they don't then have another dealer do it and ask for a Toyota MDT (Master Diagnostic Technician) to do it. If they need to add fluid they have a techstream to make filling even easier. All they have to do is act like its a new or rebuilt transmission install. It shouldn't need to be filled anyway as if they use a machine, the only what came out will go back in. So if it wasn't over or under filled it should be mostly fine anyway. Sonata & Kia I4 Turbos and Fusion Turbos get worse mileage and 0-60 times than V6 Camry ....... and the Chevy POS Malibu ECO gets the worst in every possible score.

They cannot drain and fill it. Pulling the plug will do nothing. Trust me. They will either have to pump it out like I did or use a machine to flush it out through the cooler.

*****************
Thanks so much Hardtopte72.

I am still going to go with Toyota genuine WS. I simply don't like mixing brands of any kinds of fluid be it oil, coolant, or tranny fluid. It even hurt to go from Pennzoil Conventional 5W30 to Mobil 1 5W30.

But on all the other points you mention, I agree. Heck yes ..... if they are going to use the proper tool/pump as instructed in their own TSB, then there is no reason not to pump 12 quarts through instead of 6. No reason why flushing with more fluid would not work.

I am pretty sure I saw on TAM's shirt last time he was a Master Diagnostic Technician ..... but if incorrect and he won't flush it correctly, I will cancel the order I guess.

But you gotta remmber ....... I am in Gulf Breeze near Pensacola FL which is the equivalent of a "hick town" with a population of 100,000. [not only can't you get the best car service ........... you cannot even buy decent beef if you are willin to pay $25 a pound. I'll call Quality Imports in FWB if needed ......... but I doubt they'll be much help.

So you are near Tampa ???????? I'd drive down and pay you $300 to do it right for peace of mind if I cannot get a resolution to this matter.

I plan to ditch the car at 10 years/120,000 miles and get a new Avalon base XLE (priced below a V6 Camry XLE). However, I must be prepared for a falure of Toyota to restyle the 2013 Avalon by 2018 or by the elimination of the V6 altogether.

Which brings up another subject: Who would want an I4 anything ???????? I hate them. That "buzzing" sound they make drives me nuts .... along with zero power. Consumer Reports real world gas mileage shows 2012 Camy 2.5L I4 only gets only 1 mpg better than V6. I get 26 mpg city everyday on regular gas with V6 and I wouldn't drive a four cyl anything for free.

My 1997 Avalon sold to friend which has 255K+ miles today has a way smoother power delivery than today's Camry I4 ....... even though the acceleration is not as great. He still gets 30 mpg+ 75-80 mph highway with plugs & tranny fluid that has not been changed in over 100,000 miles.

 

I guess its a matter of opinion. I have the i-4 in my 09 and am quiet happy with it. I had a coworker drive it a year or so ago and he was shocked at how quick it was. I think it moves that 3500 lb car just fine for a 4 cylinder. I have gotten 37.4 out of mine also and I think you would be hard pressed to find a 6cyl that gets over 31 or so consistently. Most won't do 30 consistently from what I have seen on here. But again "your mileage may vary".

As far as your fluid, I wasn't aware that WS fluid was substandard. Do you think you could bring your own fluid to a dealer Hardtop? I also can't imagine they wouldn't want to hook it up to the old push pull machine. I guess every dealer is different and mine is above average from what I have heard. I probably will stick to WS though I already have 158k on the transmission I can't see changing now, it will either make it or it wont.

 

^^^I think by the fact that you have made it past 150k miles, that you are now playing with house money . I think it has already "made it", lol. :woot:

But then again, I'm kinda old school, average Joe thinking...that 100k+ miles is a gift. There's a reason that most people unload their cars before they hit 70k and 100k miles, but the more I read up on Toyota's, I'm starting to become a firm believer that 150k-200k miles is pretty much expected.

 

Yep I truly expect 250k and hope for over 300k. I average around 30k a year so we will see if I don't get smacked into first.

 

Not sure how you can get "smacked into" in Kansas, unless there is a tornado?
Down here in FL, you gotta watch your 6, your 9, 12, 3, and everything in between, and you'll still get smacked into...these people on the roads are idiots You'd blend right in if you're driving around in a rent-a-wreck :lol:


I'd definitely be driving an I4 if I had to put that kind of miles on a car :yikes: With my 8k/year average, I'll never be able to put 300k miles on a car, it will fall apart around the engine and trans.

 

I hear you, that is actually a good problem to have. I go all over the midwest and let me tell you Dallas gets me tweaked up almost every time I go around there. I have been lucky several times going through that crazy place.