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#1 Old 12-29-2012, 01:32 PM
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Start-Up Noise

(Edit: Note - I no longer believe that the Mobil 1 oil filter was the cause of my start-up noise problem. Please read this entire thread to learn what I now believe the problem to be - a Toyota/Lexus VVT-i problem - e.g. Toyota/Lexus acknowledged: 'Brief Engine Knock & Rattle Noise At Cold Startup') kooter

After over 120,000 miles (and more than two dozen filter changes) I'm finished using the Mobil 1 M1-102 oil filters. I have been using the M1-102 oil filter for my 2004 3.0L V6 1MZ-FE engine beginning with the very first oil change, but no longer.

Over the last two oil & filter changes (10,000 miles over 9~10 months) I had experienced a random (maybe 3-4 times a month) valve-train clatter noise lasting a split second on cold start (after sitting 6+ hours). In all the years I have used Mobil One oil filters I had never experienced this cold start-up valve-train clatter/chatter noise before.

Well, with my last oil & filter change (about 500 miles ago) I had the cold start-up valve-train clatter/chatter noise about every-other day (3-4 times a week), which was driving me even more bonkers than before when it happened only 3-4 times a month. Something had changed... I am using the same Mobil One 0W-40 oil I've always used and the same Mobil One M1-102 oil filter I've always used. I have had no recent work on the engine, and engine performs great as always. But, why the cold start-up valve-train noise?

I replaced the Mobil 1 M1-102 oil filter with another M1-102 oil filter. I had the same problem over the following 7-10 days. I replaced the oil filter yet again with another M1-102...same exact problem. I dropped by my Toyota dealership a picked up a genuine Toyota 90915-YZZD1 oil filter and installed it - and guess what? The cold start valve-train clatter/chatter noise problem completely and totally went away! As far as I'm concerned the problem was caused by the Mobil One oil filter... Problem 'supposedly' solved.

I'm guessing that Mobil 1 (Champion) has changed the filter's anti-drain back valve (ADBV) somehow - maybe the material, thickness, size, etc. and the oil filter drains or loses oil too quickly (supposedly the ADBV is only suppose to lose between 0-3 ml of oil per hour) and now the filter is no longer able to retain an adequate amount of oil in the filter to prevent dry-starts and thus valve-train clatter noise. Another likelihood I guess could be a change they made to the filter's already loose threading (thread pitch angle) where oil is able to drain through the threading. Dunno... Don't care... But, I do know that the genuine Toyota oil filter most definitely does not produce the same valve-train noise I was experiencing with the Mobil 1 oil filters.

This has been bugging the hell out of me for a long time. I'm glad it's resolved...and I'm perfectly happy using a genuine Toyota oil filter. I just hope Mobil 1 hasn't/doesn't change their 0W-40 synthetic oil I've always used in this car (as well as many of my other cars) because I've been happy with that product from them.





Last edited by Kooter; 01-02-2013 at 10:16 PM. Reason: OP requested title change
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#2 Old 12-29-2012, 02:09 PM
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Hmmmm I'm using the same exact oil filter....


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#3 Old 12-29-2012, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by gold94corolla View Post
Hmmmm I'm using the same exact oil filter....
Keep your ears open for a shrri-i-i-i-inng metal-on-metal sound at cold start-up that only lasts a split second. The M1-102 filters that caused this problem for me were acquired over 6+ months and from three different retailers (Auto-Zone, O'Reilly's & Pep Boys) so it's doubtful I ran into a single bad run of filters.

Something else I noticed over-time was that the oil light hesitated a split second before going out whenever the dry-start noise happened, which indicated (at least to me) that the oil filter had drained out and the filter had to re-fill itself...instead of being pre-charged with an adequate amount of oil so-as to prevent a dry start. By the way, this problem has happened regardless of climate (from 100+ degree summer days to sub-freezing winter days). The car had to sit at least 6 hours without being driven, but the problem showed itself more often if the car had not been driven for 12 hours or longer.

Just keep your ears and eyes open and be cognizant of what I experienced.
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#4 Old 12-29-2012, 02:37 PM
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We use Purolator branded as Valvoline at work. ZERO problems with the filters over the 2 years since Valvoline switched from Champion Labs. I saw a few Champ labs (and every cheap jiffy lube) filter fail on Eco-Tec engines. Media sucked through and holes in the filter! Never a problem with the Purolators. I use their PureOne's on my cars, also no issues.
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#5 Old 12-29-2012, 02:50 PM
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Normal restrictive filter. Try the cheapest orange can Fram or white can Purolator next time.
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#6 Old 12-29-2012, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Bitter View Post
We use Purolator branded as Valvoline at work. ZERO problems with the filters over the 2 years since Valvoline switched from Champion Labs. I saw a few Champ labs (and every cheap jiffy lube) filter fail on Eco-Tec engines. Media sucked through and holes in the filter! Never a problem with the Purolators. I use their PureOne's on my cars, also no issues.
Isn't it funny that zillions of 1960s era VW Beetles easily clocked 100,000 miles (and some 300,000+ miles) and that engine had NO OIL FILTER. And, the engine was air cooled, only held 2.6 quarts of crappy old 1960s dino oil, and was often driven in stop-and-go 120 degree heat.

Truth be known, we'd probably be good-to-go for our modern-day 21st century engines to last at least a quarter million miles without even using an oil filter...

Last edited by Kooter; 12-29-2012 at 08:03 PM.
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#7 Old 12-29-2012, 03:58 PM
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Those engines didn't hold up as well as you remember. They may have gone 100K miles, but most needed a good deal of constant work to make it there.
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#8 Old 12-29-2012, 04:15 PM
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Those engines didn't hold up as well as you remember. They may have gone 100K miles, but most needed a good deal of constant work to make it there.
I think maybe you have forgotten how much work American vehicles required to go even a fraction of that mileage. Most American vehicles were worn-out and considered pretty much worthless after as little as 60,000 miles, yet the Beetle was just getting broken-in.

Just so you'll know, Volkswagen was highly admired for being the company that built the 'ultra-reliable' Beetle. Most U.S. car buyers back then wanted big cars with big engines...none of which were terribly reliable, much less 'ultra-reliable'.
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#9 Old 12-29-2012, 05:16 PM
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I dunno, I know some old gear heads who worked at VW dealers in the late 70's and 80's. They'd follow the Greatful Dead tour schedule and stock up on clutches, cylinders, pistons, valves, heads, etc whenever the GD came through town since they would get a GLUT of parts orders and cars in for repair. Pretty much 14 hr days for a week prior, week of, and week after the shows.

My own experiences with a VW microbus were no better. 2 engines, one trans, 15,000 miles. AFTER he'd already had an engine replaced prior and trans rebuilt once already.
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#10 Old 12-29-2012, 05:39 PM
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Never had a problem with the Mobils filter, been using them since I've had the car.

May I ask why you're using 0w-40?


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#11 Old 12-29-2012, 06:51 PM
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Never had a problem with the Mobils filter, been using them since I've had the car.

May I ask why you're using 0w-40?
I like the idea of 0W for cold starts, and I like the extra protection of 40 oil for a warmed up engine. My BMWs specifically recommend 0W-40 so even though my particular model year Camry (2004) recommends 5W-30 I upped what I use to 40 because I'm told that Mobil 1's 0W-40 is slightly on the weak side of actually being 40...so it's right in the ballpark for what Toyota recommended. Plus, I spend most of my time in the Dallas area where the temperature often hits well over 100 degrees.

Here is BMW's LL-01 Approved Synthetic Oils. You'll see that BMW's High Performance SAE 5W-30 Synthetic Oil is equivalent to Mobil 1 SAE 0W-40. So, since Toyota did not define which 5W-30 oil is recommended - then I decided I'd use an oil that BMW considers to be equivalent to a high performance 5W-30 synthetic oil...which is the Mobil 1 0W-40 that is on their approved list.

Last edited by Kooter; 12-29-2012 at 07:07 PM.
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#12 Old 12-29-2012, 10:02 PM
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Never had a problem with my cars or trucks in over 50 years of driving,changing my oil and filter at 3000 mi. intervals. It's not necessarily the quality of the oil or the configuration of the filter but the frequency of the oil and filter changes.

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#13 Old 12-29-2012, 11:14 PM
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I was using the Mobil filters on my celica until I began to research on forums like bobistheoilguy.com then I switched over to a oversized OEM Toyota filter because of the great things I saw about the OEM filters. The much lower cost of the OEM filters (especially when you buythem in bulk on eBay from Toyota dealer sellers) also helped convince me

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#14 Old 12-30-2012, 12:17 AM
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I don't care much for Mobil-1 filters. Primarily because Mobil-1 has greater pressure differential than Purolator PureOne and doesn't offer better filtration efficiency (~99.6% vs PureOne's 99.9%). BTW Mobil-1 rating is at 25 microns , PureOne is rated at 20 microns .

This Mobil-1 (Extended Performance) filter has the same efficiency (99.6%) as a regular Purolator (L30001):
http://www.mobil.com/Shared-Files-LC...gn_amer_en.pdf

So if a Mobil-1 filter came with an oil package deal then go for it. Otherwise +1 to Purolator PureOne. You can try Purolator-made Motorcraft FL400s, which is a slightly larger version of the standard size PureOne PL10241.

Mobil-1 0W-40 is a very good oil. Some use German Castrol 5W-30, and in case Mobil-1 cheapens the 0W-40.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Kooter View Post
I like the idea of 0W for cold starts, and I like the extra protection of 40 oil for a warmed up engine. My BMWs specifically recommend 0W-40 so even though my particular model year Camry (2004) recommends 5W-30 I upped what I use to 40 because I'm told that Mobil 1's 0W-40 is slightly on the weak side of actually being 40...so it's right in the ballpark for what Toyota recommended. Plus, I spend most of my time in the Dallas area where the temperature often hits well over 100 degrees.

Here is BMW's LL-01 Approved Synthetic Oils. You'll see that BMW's High Performance SAE 5W-30 Synthetic Oil is equivalent to Mobil 1 SAE 0W-40. So, since Toyota did not define which 5W-30 oil is recommended - then I decided I'd use an oil that BMW considers to be equivalent to a high performance 5W-30 synthetic oil...which is the Mobil 1 0W-40 that is on their approved list.
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#15 Old 12-30-2012, 09:07 AM
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I use the FL400S on my 97 v6. Works great far as I can tell lol. Good construction when I took them apart.

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