Camry HybridDiscussion area for the Toyota Camry Hybrid. Topics of discussion range from fuel economy, safety, modifications, performance all involving Americas favorite family car, the Toyota Camry.
09 TCH in the stop for 5 days so far, Toyota won't cover the $3500 repair!
This is gonna be a long message!
It starts off with me purchasing my 09 TCH in May 08. About 2 weeks later I decide to have a remote start installed in my brand new car with aprox. 800 miles on it. The shop was not able to do it and they set off a ton of codes and my car wouldn't drive right, I drove to the dealership and they reset the lights for me.
Fast forward 4 1/2 months and 5000 miles or so later... I install the VAIS Tech I-Pod adapter and turn the car on to test it. Works great everything is o.k. Turn the car off to clean up and then I turned the car back on and the car wouldn't do anything! I had the car towed to the dealership Monday, on Thursday eveing they finally figured out that a module that is back behind the radio is "fried."
They told me it was a $3500 repair and warranty won't cover it because they don't know what we did. They state that they need to replace the whole wiring harness inside the car because Toyota doesn't sell the part by itself. They state that they can NOT determine what cause the module to fail.
I understand that the wiring harness has been cut and tapped due to a prior remote start install that was never completed but the car does NOT have anything connected to that harnesses.
I called Toyota NA Customer Care on Thursday evening and was told I'd get a call back in 1 business day. I did receive a call as promised but all they could tell me is they will try to call me on Monday but depending on the work load they have it might be Tuesday.
I'd like to add that the Service writer and the tech have been helpful and great thus far.
So it looks like I'm won't have my car for at least another week if not longer!
I hate to tell you this but as an outsider looking in, I agree with Toyota. You have another shop botch a remote install so bad they don't even finish, this sets off a bunch of codes and the car does not "run right". They cut into and tap the wiring harness in the car to do this but that was not fixed.
4 1/2 months later, you pull the center dash and radio to install an I-Pod adapter. and when cleaned up, the car will not start. The module that was "fried" is right behind the radio that you just pulled. So you and another shop work on the car, you probably moved some wires around that the other shop screwed up and shorted out a module and you think Toyota should pay for it......
For the dealer to make SURE that the repair is done right, they will replace the cut harness, the bad module and anything else that needs to be done. It's not their fault and probably not yours. The first shop that tried to install your remote start should be paying the bill but they will not after 4 1/2 months (they should have been forced to replace the harness then, not now). That leaves you with the tab.
Sometimes life lessons are expensive. I know that a LOT of mine have been.
I hate to tell you this but as an outsider looking in, I agree with Toyota. You have another shop botch a remote install so bad they don't even finish, this sets off a bunch of codes and the car does not "run right". They cut into and tap the wiring harness in the car to do this but that was not fixed.
4 1/2 months later, you pull the center dash and radio to install an I-Pod adapter. and when cleaned up, the car will not start. The module that was "fried" is right behind the radio that you just pulled. So you and another shop work on the car, you probably moved some wires around that the other shop screwed up and shorted out a module and you think Toyota should pay for it......
For the dealer to make SURE that the repair is done right, they will replace the cut harness, the bad module and anything else that needs to be done. It's not their fault and probably not yours. The first shop that tried to install your remote start should be paying the bill but they will not after 4 1/2 months (they should have been forced to replace the harness then, not now). That leaves you with the tab.
Sometimes life lessons are expensive. I know that a LOT of mine have been.
The module is back behind the radio but it was hidden.
The wires that were tapped were soldered back together and taped. BOTH wires are not near the radio and not near any other tapped wires or grounds.
When I say cleaning up, I mean wiping finger prints, gathering zip ties not putting everything back together.
The dealer has NO idea what caused the problem. It's no different than you going out to your car right now and trying to start it and finding out it won't start. Then going to the dealer and they tell you it's $3500 to repair it because they DON'T know what caused the problem.
I hate to tell you this but as an outsider looking in, I agree with Toyota. You have another shop botch a remote install so bad they don't even finish, this sets off a bunch of codes and the car does not "run right". They cut into and tap the wiring harness in the car to do this but that was not fixed.
4 1/2 months later, you pull the center dash and radio to install an I-Pod adapter. and when cleaned up, the car will not start. The module that was "fried" is right behind the radio that you just pulled. So you and another shop work on the car, you probably moved some wires around that the other shop screwed up and shorted out a module and you think Toyota should pay for it......
For the dealer to make SURE that the repair is done right, they will replace the cut harness, the bad module and anything else that needs to be done. It's not their fault and probably not yours. The first shop that tried to install your remote start should be paying the bill but they will not after 4 1/2 months (they should have been forced to replace the harness then, not now). That leaves you with the tab.
Sometimes life lessons are expensive. I know that a LOT of mine have been.
I agree 100%, Big Nuts did it himself and wants Toyota to pick up the tab. Like changing your own oil and leaving oil plug loose and it falls out lol.
You decided to do the remote install and the ipod install. The problem should be resolved between you and the shop that did those installs, not Toyota. Toyota didn't do anything, your warranty was voided when the electrical system was touched.
Go to an independent shop, they will be cheaper than Toyota but still going to be $$$
Yeah, alas, these cars are not ideal candidates for "home neurosurgery". Whether it's you, or a third party acting at your direction, if you decide to make changes to the system, you are at risk for the expense of repair if things go wrong.
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2009 Camry Hybrid, Black.
2007 Avalon XLS, Cassis Pearl (that Burgundy color).
2004 Prius Package 9, Black.
Last edited by ekpolk; 11-08-2008 at 09:15 PM.
Reason: grammo...
Yeah, alas, these are these cars are not ideal candidates for "home neurosurgery". Whether it's you, or a third party acting at your direction, if you decide to make changes to the system, you are at risk for the expense of repair if things go wrong.
Agreed- Toyota has no obligation to repair your vehicle. They do not provide a bumper-to-bumper warranty that covers everything in all situations. They provide a bumper-to-bumper limited warranty that protects consumers from manufacturing defects. It does not cover repairs that are needed due to aftermarket equipment, non-Toyota installs, or consumer-initiated projects.
You voided your warranty when you tinkered with the radio yourself, and the aftermarket shop attempted to modify the wiring harness. As soon as they cut it, they voided the warranty to all of the related components.
No disrespect, but that's the risk you take when you attempt to modify a complex vehicle.
Agreed- Toyota has no obligation to repair your vehicle. They do not provide a bumper-to-bumper warranty that covers everything in all situations. They provide a bumper-to-bumper limited warranty that protects consumers from manufacturing defects. It does not cover repairs that are needed due to aftermarket equipment, non-Toyota installs, or consumer-initiated projects.
You voided your warranty when you tinkered with the radio yourself, and the aftermarket shop attempted to modify the wiring harness. As soon as they cut it, they voided the warranty to all of the related components.
No disrespect, but that's the risk you take when you attempt to modify a complex vehicle.
It is true that Toyota isn't obligated to pay for the repair; however, you can try to ask them since they said they don't know what cause the module to fail which means they can't prove that it has anything to do with whatever you had done. Even in court they will have to prove without a doubt that the failure is indeed cause by something you had done before they can deny your coverage.
In some way, it is a matter of how the dealer present the failure to Toyota and what they had actually done to make their diagnoses. Did they just come to that conclusion because they saw some 'modified' wires right next to the part that had failed or did they actually run some test to come that conclusion. If they don't know what cause the failure then I would have to say they just made that conclusion base on what they saw.
I am posting this on both forums that you have contacted. What you have with the dealer is a case of perception and reality. The reality of the situation is that you may or may not have caused the problem with your car. The dealer can not prove that your actions caused the problem and your prior shop causing the codes to be set might not be a contributing factor to your current problem. You install of the I-Pod adapter SHOULD have not caused any additional problems either.
The perception of the situation is different though. Your dealer has on record your previous encounter with the service department at which time they cleared numerous codes caused by a botched attempt of a remote start installation. They know of the spliced together wiring harness from this attempt on a VERY complicated electrical system installed on a HYBRID vehicle.
The dealer did not “fix” anything on this prior visit; they just cleared the “codes” set by the botched attempt. This alone will not set you in the good graces of the dealer or Toyota with your current problem.
Add to this the fact that either you (or now a shop) went back into the dash and made some more modifications by adding an I-Pod adapter and the next thing that they know, your car does not work. I realize that YOU told them that it worked after the install but YOU can’t prove that. Again, the perception is that YOU installed something and the car ran fine before the install and now, it does not run.
Electrical systems do not always have a “cause” when they go out. What “caused” something as simple as a light bulb to blow? A thinner than normal tungsten wire in the core? Did you drop it? An electrical surge burn it out? A bad gas mixture when it was made?
Out of just those 4 scenarios, you can not tell what caused the light bulb to go out. The light will not burn and that is all that you can determine. Modern electronics in our cars, hybrid or not, are a LOT more complicated than that simple light bulb scenario and determining the cause of a failure is almost impossible. Both a rejection by the dealer or Toyota on your warranty claim can be taken to court and you might win. I can pretty much guarantee that it will cost you more for a lawyer to prove your case and you can still lose and wind up paying for the car and the lawyer.
This is one of those cases where perception has trumped reality and you will pay the price for it. If you can get a reduced price or have Toyota agree to a split in the price in which they agree to pay for part of the fix, take it. You will be a LOT better of in the long run. If they don’t agree to pay anything, face it like a man and learn from your experience.
How much did you save by bypassing the dealer for the installs? This vehicle is just too complex to do anything yourself. At least if the dealer screwed up they should cover repairs.
I am posting this on both forums that you have contacted. What you have with the dealer is a case of perception and reality. The reality of the situation is that you may or may not have caused the problem with your car. The dealer can not prove that your actions caused the problem and your prior shop causing the codes to be set might not be a contributing factor to your current problem. You install of the I-Pod adapter SHOULD have not caused any additional problems either.
The perception of the situation is different though. Your dealer has on record your previous encounter with the service department at which time they cleared numerous codes caused by a botched attempt of a remote start installation. They know of the spliced together wiring harness from this attempt on a VERY complicated electrical system installed on a HYBRID vehicle.
The dealer did not “fix” anything on this prior visit; they just cleared the “codes” set by the botched attempt. This alone will not set you in the good graces of the dealer or Toyota with your current problem.
Add to this the fact that either you (or now a shop) went back into the dash and made some more modifications by adding an I-Pod adapter and the next thing that they know, your car does not work. I realize that YOU told them that it worked after the install but YOU can’t prove that. Again, the perception is that YOU installed something and the car ran fine before the install and now, it does not run.
Electrical systems do not always have a “cause” when they go out. What “caused” something as simple as a light bulb to blow? A thinner than normal tungsten wire in the core? Did you drop it? An electrical surge burn it out? A bad gas mixture when it was made?
Out of just those 4 scenarios, you can not tell what caused the light bulb to go out. The light will not burn and that is all that you can determine. Modern electronics in our cars, hybrid or not, are a LOT more complicated than that simple light bulb scenario and determining the cause of a failure is almost impossible. Both a rejection by the dealer or Toyota on your warranty claim can be taken to court and you might win. I can pretty much guarantee that it will cost you more for a lawyer to prove your case and you can still lose and wind up paying for the car and the lawyer.
This is one of those cases where perception has trumped reality and you will pay the price for it. If you can get a reduced price or have Toyota agree to a split in the price in which they agree to pay for part of the fix, take it. You will be a LOT better of in the long run. If they don’t agree to pay anything, face it like a man and learn from your experience.
This is the very reason that as I have gotten older I have learned to "let the Dealer do it"! It may cost more, but in the end it may very well cost you less.
Based on what this customer has presented, I can tell you that Toyota should NOT pay for this repair. The vehicle comes PRE-WIRED for a TOYOTA Remote starter for a good reason. The wiring systems are SO complicated on today's vehicles (especially the Hybrid), that cutting wires and resoldering can disrupt the communication capabilities of these wires and often times, modules, wiring harnesses, etc. can longer perform their functions. I have had to have these conversations several times with various manufacturer vehicles and they are not pleasant. This is an obvious case of a vehicle having a wiring harness cut and multiple problems will come from this. If the vehicle is in our shop, it is either leaving with a complete harness at the customer's expense or it is being towed to a hack shop to try to repair it the incorrect way. We live and we learn and then we come to these websites and try to give the Toyota dealer and/or Toyota a black mark. If it was a FACTORY DEFECT, it would be covered and like others have said, these modules/harnesses would be failing on other Hybrids. Module/harness failure on just this one hacked-up Hybrid a defect? I think not. Unfortunately, life's lessons are sometimes hard.... and expensive.... but please do not blame the dealer or Toyota...... this one is on you. I would definitely try to go after the shop that tried the initial remote start install. They were obviously over their head and that is what insurance is for..... mistakes. If Toyota pays one dime on this repair (and they might just offer some goodwill, believe it or not, but HUGE mistake and only continue to have folks try hack-shop accessories when a factory piece is available. PLEASE have this vehicle repaired the CORRECT way at a TOYOTA dealer. You already had one hack job that did not work out so well. Sorry to sound so harsh, but I live this stuff every day and continue to shake my head. Why not have your local butcher perform your spleen removal?
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I agree 100%, Big Nuts did it himself and wants Toyota to pick up the tab
. Like changing your own oil and leaving oil plug loose and it falls out lol.
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