Camry HybridDiscussion area for the Toyota Camry Hybrid. Topics of discussion range from fuel economy, safety, modifications, performance all involving Americas favorite family car, the Toyota Camry.
so, here's my dilemma. NiMeH batteries used on TCHs are aircraft quality batteries. OK, good news. covered for 100 000 miles. Ok, another good news.
well, there are no batteries that last EXTENDED period of time. at what point do we pull the plug on that battery and replace it? as i usually drive my cars into at least over 200 000 miles, no NiMeH battery will last that long.
that's a NiMeH battery, right? even LiI won't.
anyone knows if a regular led acid battery can be used in TCH? as a 12V replacement, of course. i do not feel like paying $180 for glass packed Optima one. and mine is what, closing on 6 years, still OEM one. i somehow do not believe they last any longer than other batteries.
no signs of trouble, mostly age.
There are a few reasons why the AGM battery must be used.
1) Since the battery is technically inside the car and not out in (relatively) open air like when under the hood, it must not release hydrogen into the air during use. Sealed LED acid batteries can still do this despite being "sealed".
2) To further achieve the goal of 0 released hydrogen gas, a temperature sensor must be attached to the battery so the computer can read this info. The computer will then adjust charging levels to prevent hydrogen buildup.
SOLUTION:
I have read that you can use ANY brand of AGM battery that fits the specs of the Toyota battery. You must then remove the temperature sensor from the Toyota battery and place it on the new battery. I believe this can be done for under $100. I'll see if I can find the source I read from last year.
[[ UPDATE]] I just read your earlier post. The OPTIMA battery was the solution I also read about, so if you recently checked the price, $180 may be it. Much better than $350 (wow...).
FYI:
My 2007 is still going strong. These AGM batteries really last long, especially since they are temperature controlled in a much cooler trunk (compared to hood). It helps that I live in New England, where battery killing heat is much reduced.
There were some members of another forum I used to follow (GreenHybrid) whom had 2004 Prius's passing 200,000 (hard) miles. They had the batteries taken apart and checked for capacity. The battery packs were down by close to 50% of their brand new state. Oddly enough, the owners stated that they still got 50+ MPG on these old batteries. Apparently, they only lost some 0-60 full throttle capacity (batteries drain quicker), but the ability to capture and release energy during normal driving was intact. I'll try and dig that source up too. The 50% loss of capacity might have been a 2000 Prius, which had the leaky battery issue.
Last edited by andym1978; 04-04-2011 at 03:35 PM.
Reason: Added "NIMH" to top of post to reduce confusion.
those are two separate questions, one is about NiMeHi battery for HSD, and one was about 12V battery. now it's a mess. folks already got confused.
apparently, my OEM 12V battery does have acid in it, as it has warning signs all over it. i read somewhere that though it is glass packed, it still has acid layer on the top and caution has to be exercised during its transportation.
i looked at mine yesterday, and outside having panasonic brand on it, it looks no different from a regular led acid battery. but i can vouch it was never moved or touched, as bracket bolt down there is absolutely in prestine condition. it's galvanized, and shows socket signs right away.
temperature sensor? i'll look into this. i have little doubt it's no rocket science to move it from a battery to a battery. 100 bucks for that, plus 180 for battery, naahhh, i'll do it myself.
Optima says on their website that TCH battery must have OEM cable replaced with Optima one, to match the threads. I looked at that Optima battery at Autozone yesterday, both terminals and battery poles appear to be a perfect match as is, without any replacements.
andy, so how many miles you have on yours? i mean, i well understand this is nothing more than a backup battery, but ain't none of them lasting into over 100 000 miles/10 years of use. has to be replaced at some point, question is - when?
My TCH currently has 54,000 miles and was built April 2006. I haven't checked the voltage on the 12V, but perhaps I can do that this weekend. I have never gotten a low battery error and car seems to have plenty of electrical power in "accessory mode".
Regarding the under $100 cost, that was the price I thought a brand new AGM battery would cost. With your $180 price quote, the entire process of buying the new battery, putting the temp sensor on yourself, and installing yourself would still be only $180, not $180+$100.
You must then remove the temperature sensor from the Toyota battery and place it on the new battery. I believe this can be done for under $100.
it looked like it will cost to move temp sensor for $100. Optima has direct replacement battery for $179.99, Autozone or internet. led acid batteries to TCH specs are $99 parts store, but i'd also be concerned with hydrogen production into the trunk. makes sense. esp having subwoofer right next to it, and i know for granted mine has short in it somewhere, as it can make loud bang once in a while.
i'll take closer look at mine later tonight, if it even has a sensor attached. at a glance yesterday it all looked just like a regular battery.
yes, it does have some sort of plug attached to the left hand upper corner of the battery, looking at it from the car rear. or the positive terminal upper left hand corner. gods, save me from having to pay $400 for a battery.
The current Toyota battery has a heat sensor at the top. This has to be removed (easy to do with a screw driver) and glued to the top of your Optima battery. This battery is sealed so it should not vent unless heavily overcharged. However, if the valves do release they vent directly and there is no place to attach the vent tube. This sealed battery has little free liquid electrolyte because it is absorbed into the glass mat. Consequently, there is less danger of acid spilling into the trunk.
The 12 volt battery is not used to crank the gasoline engine in the Camry Hybrid but it does supply all the 12 volts circuitry which includes all of the computers in your car. If this battery fails, the computers will not start and the Camry Hybrid will not start. A weak battery can also pull the 12 volts power down to a lower voltage. This can cause problems with all of the computers that control your car. (When I had a problem with my car the first thing the dealer insisted I do was replace the battery. The problem was caused by something else but the battery was weak.)
Since the 12 volt battery does not start the gasoline engine you can still use the car with a very weak battery. So much so that at least three 2001 to 2003 Prius users have told me that their Prius now gets better mileage with the new battery. I am now starting to get these stories from 2004 + owners also
Hmm... Your post reminded me of another mod you should probably do to the new battery. You may be able to rig up an "adapter" that goes over the battery vents and connects to the tube on the car that leads outside. Might be worth making a DIY article on this subject if you successfully pull it off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz
hah, made my life better:
The current Toyota battery has a heat sensor at the top. This has to be removed (easy to do with a screw driver) and glued to the top of your Optima battery. This battery is sealed so it should not vent unless heavily overcharged. However, if the valves do release they vent directly and there is no place to attach the vent tube. This sealed battery has little free liquid electrolyte because it is absorbed into the glass mat. Consequently, there is less danger of acid spilling into the trunk.
The 12 volt battery is not used to crank the gasoline engine in the Camry Hybrid but it does supply all the 12 volts circuitry which includes all of the computers in your car. If this battery fails, the computers will not start and the Camry Hybrid will not start. A weak battery can also pull the 12 volts power down to a lower voltage. This can cause problems with all of the computers that control your car. (When I had a problem with my car the first thing the dealer insisted I do was replace the battery. The problem was caused by something else but the battery was weak.)
Since the 12 volt battery does not start the gasoline engine you can still use the car with a very weak battery. So much so that at least three 2001 to 2003 Prius users have told me that their Prius now gets better mileage with the new battery. I am now starting to get these stories from 2004 + owners also
i was deliberating over this hypothetically. as far as i know, Optimas are sealed batteries with no vents. I'll take a good look at one before investing into it. basically, what it is is a deep cycle battery, like a marine one, or one i have for my gate opener. just, little to none acid. i somehow do not think, they even get to hydrogen production condition, as that temp sensor should stop charge way before and, also, they are trickle charged anyway.
Hello, I noticed your conversation regarding our batteries and wanted to offer some assistance. All of our batteries have provisions for venting, as all lead-acid batteries (AGM or otherwise) can vent in the extreme overcharging scenarios previously mentioned. However, only our group 27, 51, 34C, 78 and 31 batteries all have ports for connecting a vent hose. Although people do it anyway, we would never recommend installing an unvented battery in any enclosed space, because there's a legitimate, albeit unlikely, safety risk involved.
ukrkoz, I looked through our website and fitment guide to find this information you posted about replacing OEM cables, but could not find it. Could you please provide a link? Our fitment guide lists Group 35 batteries as direct-fit replacement, but those batteries do not have provisions for external venting. I'm not familiar with the location of the OEM batteries in hybrid Camrys. Are they in a sealed box in the trunk that is vented to the outside? Our RedTop batteries are designed and warrantied for starting applications, while our YellowTops are designed and warrantied for both starting and deep-cycle applications. If anyone has any questions about our batteries, I'll do my best to answer them.
I really appreciate the useful info you posted. In fact, your post has created a future battery sale for your company when I look into replacing my battery this summer (Preventative maintenance - My car was built April 2006, so I just hit 5 years on my current 12v).
I never liked the idea of "guessing" or "hacking" a generic battery in order to save a buck due to safety concerns. I also didn't want to pay over $300 from Toyota.
Also, my parents are looking to replace the 12v battery in their 2008 Prius some time soon (they killed the battery a few times, so the battery is permanently weakened). I think it is a smaller battery than normal, but will take some measurements and pictures of their setup if you do not already have the info. Out Toyota dealership quoted a lesser amount for this battery - $200 including install and "computer reset" (Though I'd do the install myself).
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