Looking at the 2012 Cambry Hybrid LE

[Ncage1974]

Hey guys i'm looking at a 2012 camry hybrid. It looks like to be a big step up from 2011. Its going to be a hard move for me :P. I have a Lexus IS350. I just got married and need something a lot more practical. Anyways have some questions for you guys.

1. Price: I'm wanting just the base LE with with MSRP of $25,900. It appears they will start showing up at the dealerships in late november. Do you think there will be any crazyness i prices where either the dealer won't be willing to drop the price below MSRP or prices will be above MSRP? If so what would be the best way to get the lowest price? March into the dealership now and preorder now or maybe wait until late december (when i would like to get the car by)?

2. The new camry hybrid seems to be a great deal since toyota dropped the price & increased the gas mileage by 8mpg. Do you guys stil thing hybrids are worth it in the long term? 90% of my driving (back and forth to work which is about 25 minutes away). Its pretty much a strip of road that is mostly highway speeds (55MPH) that has a stop light every few miles and the stop lights are times so badly i almost always get stopped at every light. I live in central IL and the talk about how much less effecient hybrids are in cold weather (IL does get quite cold) also has me concerned. I've heard they aren't much better in the winter than a non-hybrid.

Anyways, any advice would be appreciated.

[98CamryLE]

As a 2007 Camry Hybrid owner, here are my two cents... take it for what its worth.

1. On a 2012 hybrid, you will probably pay near MSRP if you want one of the first ones that come out in late November. I'm guessing you also will find it hard to find a true 'base' hybrid for the 25K price. I'm thinking that most hybrids that show up on dealers lots (at least initially) will be XLE models or LE models that have an option package or two. To get a true sense of what price to shoot for, I would visit Fitzmall Toyota online, which have usually posted the best prices (and prices that seem to be in the ballpark of what dealers will settle for). As of this morning, they don't list any Hybrids in stock or on order... but check back regularly to see what they'll charge.

2. Do I think that the hybrid is worth it? Again, here are my two cents- take it for what its worth. My 2007 hybrid has the options of an XLE 4-cylinder... looking at the difference in price- an XLE 4 banger was about 25,000 back in 2007. My hybrid was about 27,500. (Difference of $2500). It currently has 68,000 miles on it. It gets an average of 36 mpg, while the 4 banger would probably get an average of 25mpg. Gas is currently about $3.30 per gallon. (68,000 / 36mpg * $3.30 = $6,233 that I have spent on gas) If I would have gotten an XLE: (68,000 / 25mpg * 3.30 = $8,976) That's a difference of $2,743.

So has the hybrid paid off? Yes, after 68,000 miles, I am ahead by about $250 bucks. When you add in the $1300 tax incentive that I got in 2007, but is no longer available, I'm ahead about $1,550. In terms of the hybrid power train, it's been awesome. Not a single problem with the hybrid system at all, and it's getting better mpg now than it did brand new. (My water pump failed at 58K, but that's a problem that impacts all Camry engines from that year, among others)


To your situation: Knowing that your commute is about 25 minutes, and the speed limit is 55mph, but you will end up stopped at a few lights along the way- do I think it will be worth it for you? First, the 2012 hybrid is rated to get more mpg than my 2007. (But so is the regular gas Camry) I am hesitant to say that it makes economic sense for someone in your situation. Because the hybrid system won't let you stay in electric mode past 40-ish mph, I don't think you'll get the most out of the system. While it may be saving gas at each stop light, you probably won't see too much only-electric at any other time, as you'll need the gas assist to get you up to 55mph, and then it will stay on until you come back down below 40.

To your concerns regarding the colder temps- I'm in Wisconsin, and yes my hybrid's mpg does lower significantly when the temps drop- but keep in mind that non-hybrids face this same challenge. My mpg in winter averages about 33mpg, while it stays close to 40mpg in the spring and fall, and lowers to 37/38 in summer with the a/c blasting.

On a side note, I would definitely avoid the 2012 model year. My biggest complaint about my 2007 is that there are were too many bugs, squeaks, rattles, and design problems. Most of those problems were addressed in TSBs, but the 2008 models were significantly better. I would avoid buying a car in its first model year. I would seriously wait for the 2013 model year.

[Ncage1974]

Originally Posted by 98CamryLE

As a 2007 Camry Hybrid owner, here are my two cents... take it for what its worth.

1. On a 2012 hybrid, you will probably pay near MSRP if you want one of the first ones that come out in late November. I'm guessing you also will find it hard to find a true 'base' hybrid for the 25K price. I'm thinking that most hybrids that show up on dealers lots (at least initially) will be XLE models or LE models that have an option package or two. To get a true sense of what price to shoot for, I would visit Fitzmall Toyota online, which have usually posted the best prices (and prices that seem to be in the ballpark of what dealers will settle for). As of this morning, they don't list any Hybrids in stock or on order... but check back regularly to see what they'll charge.

2. Do I think that the hybrid is worth it? Again, here are my two cents- take it for what its worth. My 2007 hybrid has the options of an XLE 4-cylinder... looking at the difference in price- an XLE 4 banger was about 25,000 back in 2007. My hybrid was about 27,500. (Difference of $2500). It currently has 68,000 miles on it. It gets an average of 36 mpg, while the 4 banger would probably get an average of 25mpg. Gas is currently about $3.30 per gallon. (68,000 / 36mpg * $3.30 = $6,233 that I have spent on gas) If I would have gotten an XLE: (68,000 / 25mpg * 3.30 = $8,976) That's a difference of $2,743.

So has the hybrid paid off? Yes, after 68,000 miles, I am ahead by about $250 bucks. When you add in the $1300 tax incentive that I got in 2007, but is no longer available, I'm ahead about $1,550. In terms of the hybrid power train, it's been awesome. Not a single problem with the hybrid system at all, and it's getting better mpg now than it did brand new. (My water pump failed at 58K, but that's a problem that impacts all Camry engines from that year, among others)


To your situation: Knowing that your commute is about 25 minutes, and the speed limit is 55mph, but you will end up stopped at a few lights along the way- do I think it will be worth it for you? First, the 2012 hybrid is rated to get more mpg than my 2007. (But so is the regular gas Camry) I am hesitant to say that it makes economic sense for someone in your situation. Because the hybrid system won't let you stay in electric mode past 40-ish mph, I don't think you'll get the most out of the system. While it may be saving gas at each stop light, you probably won't see too much only-electric at any other time, as you'll need the gas assist to get you up to 55mph, and then it will stay on until you come back down below 40.

To your concerns regarding the colder temps- I'm in Wisconsin, and yes my hybrid's mpg does lower significantly when the temps drop- but keep in mind that non-hybrids face this same challenge. My mpg in winter averages about 33mpg, while it stays close to 40mpg in the spring and fall, and lowers to 37/38 in summer with the a/c blasting.

On a side note, I would definitely avoid the 2012 model year. My biggest complaint about my 2007 is that there are were too many bugs, squeaks, rattles, and design problems. Most of those problems were addressed in TSBs, but the 2008 models were significantly better. I would avoid buying a car in its first model year. I would seriously wait for the 2013 model year.

Thanks i appreciate the very detailed and throughtful post. Thanks for taking your time. I definitely see your point about first model years. I bought a 2008 accord (new redesign) before my lexus and had all kinds of issues with it before i traded it in even though honda accords are one of the most reliable cars out there. Granted your 2007 was kind of first breed for toyota and they should have got it down there definitly could/will be bugs. Especially considering how complex the synergy system is compared to other vehicles. Ya i definitely wat to get a base le if i got one. I guess i would probably have to special order one then and there goes any luck of getting below MSRP for the price.

[ukrkoz]

well, if you just can't wait some and buy used and pay cash and save A TON of money (mine was sold for $32 000 plus tax to original owner and I got her from him for $18 000 at 35 000 miles) then good luck with finding it at dealership at that price. iff it, I'd rather pay an extra grand, than deal with sales men.

you will NOT have promised "estimated" mpg. no one does. if someone tells you they do, I'd call them on that.
at least, make effort to buy one made in Japan. even if you have to order her.
personally, I am content with mine, but I'd not recommend Toyota's hybrid drive to a friend. it's jerky. sorry, ones that feel it's smooth like baby's butt, it's jerky. it's design. you can't start and shut engine continuously, without that eventually showing itself. mine is planned to be sold when one I have sights on will start coming out of lease in 3 yrs.
you have read all the posts here, right? about noises, rattles, squeaks, cold start issues, water pump failures at low mileage? or you have mind set, and simply want someone else to confirm it for you? not me.
you ever looked into Hyundai Blue Drive Sonata? you realize you have a better looking and better warranted car with same or better mpg?
you realize that if you live in a fairly cold state, anything that is lower than 55 degrees drops that promised mpg like a led ball? that city commute kills it? that any reasonable HWY speeds, not 55mph, it's so passe, kills it either? that any additional load kills it? it's a Florida 45 mph hypermiling vehicle. is that you?

[iwannagolf]

Originally Posted by 98CamryLE

1. On a 2012 hybrid, you will probably pay near MSRP if you want one of the first ones that come out in late November. I'm guessing you also will find it hard to find a true 'base' hybrid for the 25K price. I'm thinking that most hybrids that show up on dealers lots (at least initially) will be XLE models or LE models that have an option package or two.

I don't think the 2012 hybrid LE has any options available for it (that's what the brouchure indicates). The XLE has a number of ptions available to it.

Originally Posted by ukrkoz

personally, I am content with mine, but I'd not recommend Toyota's hybrid drive to a friend. it's jerky. sorry, ones that feel it's smooth like baby's butt, it's jerky. it's design. you can't start and shut engine continuously, without that eventually showing itself.

All the reviews I've read is that the 2012 model is a much better car than gen 6 in many aspects, including the transition from electric to the ICE. Time will tell if its seemless after a number of years.

[AML]

My best trip fuel mileage was 46mpg at an average 60-65mph on flat highway.

At 70-80 mph it drops down to about 36mpg.

[WhiteSands]

You guys in the cold states should install a block heater. Use it maybe 3 hours before driving off. Make sure to loop the extension cord over the drivers side mirror. That way you will never drive off with it still connected. The block heater should heat your engine to where your heat-gauge should show 1/4 scale depending how cold the outside temperature is. If it's in the 20's it may not reach the 1/4 scale but will still help your engine heat up much quicker than without it.

The block heater cost about $37 or so from your toyota dealer. It cost about $50 if you buy it already installed on a new car if it's available. I forget what the service department charges to do the whole deal. It's not that hard to install for a mechanic. Some independent foreign car shop may not charge that much to install one. I did my own and had to remove the bulky air-filter housing to get to the right-rear of the block just above the tranny area to press the element into the block. It's a good idea to put all (small package) of the heat-sink grease in the block opening before inserting the heating element.

The block heater helps with your first 2 or 3 miles when the engine is heating up with a richer fuel injection mixture, so it won't misfire when it's cold.

[carolinacamry]

Something else I wish I had considered before I bought my '08 Camry Hybrid is trunk space, or lack of. Thats my biggest complaint about the car. Well, that and the damn rattles that have popped up in the past 4 months. But seriously, if you plan to be hauling anything in the trunk, I'd think twice before getting the hybrid.

[iwannagolf]

Originally Posted by carolinacamry

Something else I wish I had considered before I bought my '08 Camry Hybrid is trunk space, or lack of. Thats my biggest complaint about the car. Well, that and the damn rattles that have popped up in the past 4 months. But seriously, if you plan to be hauling anything in the trunk, I'd think twice before getting the hybrid.

Quote from a review of the 2012 camry hybrid: Toyota moved the battery pack forward 5.5 inches versus the last Camry Hybrid, and the resulting trunk measures 13.1 cubic feet. That improves over the last Camry Hybrid (10.6 cubic feet) and beats the Fusion Hybrid (11.8) and Sonata Hybrid (10.7).

[Pipemajor]

Originally Posted by carolinacamry

Something else I wish I had considered before I bought my '08 Camry Hybrid is trunk space, or lack of. Thats my biggest complaint about the car. Well, that and the damn rattles that have popped up in the past 4 months. But seriously, if you plan to be hauling anything in the trunk, I'd think twice before getting the hybrid.

Lack of trunk space was the only real drawback when we purchased the '07 TCH. Our kids are older (actually in college now) so no need for strollers folded up and stashed in the trunk as we did with our '92 Camry which we still own.

Yeah, the squeaks and rattles in the dash was addressed by a TSB and we also had the water pump replaced @ 24k miles under warranty.

I traded up to the 2010 TCH mostly to get the heated leather and NAV options as well as the incentive 2.9% factory financing.

I take back what I said earlier that lack of trunk space was my only valid complaint with the Hybrid. The OEM Bridgestone tires on the '07 had very poor snow/ice traction. I wound up buying a set of 4 Michelin Primacy Alpin PA3 winter tires and they made a huge difference. Still, I would have preferred better OEM all-season tires. The '10 TCH came with Michelin Energy MVX4. Still slap on the Primacy winter tires when that time of the year rolls around.