Central Texas 2012 TCH First Test Drive

[rjp]

First post as I am considering buying a 2012 Camry SE or Hybrid. Live in Central Texas and have 98% highway miles around 65 to 70 mph, typically covering 20,000 miles per year. We drive a 08 Prius (usually 47 mpg on Shell reg) and a 01 Accord (26 mpg).

Need to sell the Accord and get a good road car with decent mileage. The new Accords sell for $2k less than an equivalent Camry but don't drive much different that my old one (which says something about Honda quality on the 01 models). Still a lot of road noise, more jarring ride but better handling overall. However since the new Accords are at the end of their design cycle and don't allow bluetooth or XM except in their highest dollar trim, the 2012 Camry is the clear winner.

So, should we get a SE or Camry Hybrid? Highway mileage is the key with the SE I4 claiming 35 mpg and the Hybrid XLE claiming 38 mpg. Right now the Hybrid LE is not here and the Hybrid XLE "might" be bought for $500 off MSRP. The SE will get at least invoice, placing the two options about $4000 apart.

Nevertheless, the hybrid has appeal and I have test driven two so far. Both were dark gray loaded XLEs, one about $34k, the other $36k. Clearly these are not for me from an economic standpoint as the above $4000 difference jumps to more than $8k with the loaded XLE hybrids.

Driving both was impressive, decent power (although no "push you into the seat" power), VERY quiet with only minimal road noise on the highway and virtually no wind noise at all. The ride over bumps was acceptable, not quite Lincoln Towncar but close. The dash and interior was impressive, especially compared to the previous TCH. If only the Camry Hybrid mechanicals where available in a SE trim for Camry Hybrid LE pricing. My guess is that Toyota will do something like that in a year or two with some interesting colors to push sales to the younger crowd.

The highway mileage on the second test drive car was reset and checked after a short 5 mile 60 mph run. Only read 33 mpg with the AC on (still warm down here). As soon as we slowed the mileage jumped into the 40's. Still came away with some concern about this car making 38 mpg or higher at highway speeds with AC. I will be watching another thread concerning 2012 Camry mileage. I also test drove a Prius V but ended up thinking I would be better off with a Camry for comfort or a regular Prius for mpg.

Since my dealers do not have any base Camry Hybrids right now, I am waiting. Really wish I knew how the TCH will do with highway mpg or should I just get the SE?

[Frodo65]

Originally Posted by rjp

First post as I am considering buying a 2012 Camry SE or Hybrid. Live in Central Texas and have 98% highway miles around 65 to 70 mph, typically covering 20,000 miles per year. We drive a 08 Prius (usually 47 mpg on Shell reg) and a 01 Accord (26 mpg).

Need to sell the Accord and get a good road car with decent mileage. The new Accords sell for $2k less than an equivalent Camry but don't drive much different that my old one (which says something about Honda quality on the 01 models). Still a lot of road noise, more jarring ride but better handling overall. However since the new Accords are at the end of their design cycle and don't allow bluetooth or XM except in their highest dollar trim, the 2012 Camry is the clear winner.

So, should we get a SE or Camry Hybrid? Highway mileage is the key with the SE I4 claiming 35 mpg and the Hybrid XLE claiming 38 mpg. Right now the Hybrid LE is not here and the Hybrid XLE "might" be bought for $500 off MSRP. The SE will get at least invoice, placing the two options about $4000 apart.

Nevertheless, the hybrid has appeal and I have test driven two so far. Both were dark gray loaded XLEs, one about $34k, the other $36k. Clearly these are not for me from an economic standpoint as the above $4000 difference jumps to more than $8k with the loaded XLE hybrids.

Driving both was impressive, decent power (although no "push you into the seat" power), VERY quiet with only minimal road noise on the highway and virtually no wind noise at all. The ride over bumps was acceptable, not quite Lincoln Towncar but close. The dash and interior was impressive, especially compared to the previous TCH. If only the Camry Hybrid mechanicals where available in a SE trim for Camry Hybrid LE pricing. My guess is that Toyota will do something like that in a year or two with some interesting colors to push sales to the younger crowd.

The highway mileage on the second test drive car was reset and checked after a short 5 mile 60 mph run. Only read 33 mpg with the AC on (still warm down here). As soon as we slowed the mileage jumped into the 40's. Still came away with some concern about this car making 38 mpg or higher at highway speeds with AC. I will be watching another thread concerning 2012 Camry mileage. I also test drove a Prius V but ended up thinking I would be better off with a Camry for comfort or a regular Prius for mpg.

Since my dealers do not have any base Camry Hybrids right now, I am waiting. Really wish I knew how the TCH will do with highway mpg or should I just get the SE?

The hybrid advantage will be biggest in slow-and-crawl traffic, primarily because the ICE-only car is so inefficient in that cycle. At steady highway speeds, the FE is determined primarily by aerodynamic drag and overall powertrain efficiency - where the hybrid has a relatively modest advantage.
On my '08, I have recently had occasion to drive primarily Interstate trips of around 200 miles. With the cruise set at 72-75, the trip mileage is around 38-41, trip average speed 65 MPH. I found that slowing from 75 to 68 gained 5-6 MPG, with the trip average speed at 60. On my 'commuting' slow-and-crawl cycle (trip average 30 MPH), I get 45-47 with A/C off, 41-43 with it on.

All that said: the hybrid will get better FE than the ICE-only cars - and keep in mind that 1 or two 3-4 mile construction zone stop-and-crawl will deflate the FE on the ICE-only car significantly, while having a mainly positive impact on a hybrid.

[ukrkoz]

oh wow. another miracle TCH that does "better" at hwy speeds.

here's personal experience from 1700 miles freeway drive from Seattle to Tracy, CA.

SPEEDS ABOVE 55MPH GREATLY LOWER MPG. speeds above 70 mph pretty much kill it. I took off from Seattle with 38.8 mpg average, and returned with 38.5. at 70 mph, consumption gauge on nav system basically sits below 40 mpg all the time. even on level long stretches.
keep in mind, my average is a true average as I did not reest my average readings since October last year. I do not even look at tank averages or driving averages, as they do not represent true mpg well.

btw, as far as I know, everyone agrees that speeds above 70 mph are no good for mpg on this car. well, it's still good, but Buick LeSabre is getting real close, eg, as it has that odd V6 (and comfort!!) that does superb on freeways.

[cdn_tch]

@RJP,

Overall, if you mostly drive hwy, a hybrid probably will not be a worthwhile choice.

That said, check the real mileage of a gas only Camry at the same speeds. They won't get the EPA numbers either.

[Frodo65]

Originally Posted by ukrkoz

oh wow. another miracle TCH that does "better" at hwy speeds.

here's personal experience from 1700 miles freeway drive from Seattle to Tracy, CA.

SPEEDS ABOVE 55MPH GREATLY LOWER MPG. speeds above 70 mph pretty much kill it. I took off from Seattle with 38.8 mpg average, and returned with 38.5. at 70 mph, consumption gauge on nav system basically sits below 40 mpg all the time. even on level long stretches.
keep in mind, my average is a true average as I did not reest my average readings since October last year. I do not even look at tank averages or driving averages, as they do not represent true mpg well.

btw, as far as I know, everyone agrees that speeds above 70 mph are no good for mpg on this car. well, it's still good, but Buick LeSabre is getting real close, eg, as it has that odd V6 (and comfort!!) that does superb on freeways.

Nothing miraculous, and not better - low-speed crawl-and-go definitely produce better FE. But mine does do OK at highway speeds. It's certainly it's been easier to meet or beat the EPA estimates with it than with our Honda Van, which won't do better than 25 at highway speeds. Or with my previous vehicle (03 Honda Pilot), which struggled to get above its highway rating of 22.

The longer-distance trip I've had to do repeatedly is Jacksonville to Tampa. Flat as a pancake - max elevation change over the trip is 150 feet. 'Fast' route goes I-95 to I-4, cruise set to posted speed limit +- 4 MPH tolerance. Parts of I4 through Orlando drop down to 50-55 limit. I have a strong aversion to paying speeding fines, so speed limit is adhered to. Stock Michelins, 42-44 PSI, 0W20 Mobil 1. Popping into 'convoy rocking chairs' when opportunity presents - instant read gauge shows 5-10 MPG boost when within a truck slipstream, with moderate turbulence and buffeting. 'Slow' route takes secondary roads with 55-60 MPH speed limits, through Ocala National forest, then I-75. That route has stretches of road with speed limits as low as 35 (with cops eager to raise revenue from those 'flying low'). The car has been very consistent on this, with variance driven by weather (rain and unfavorable winds cut 3-4 MPG). Fuel purchases are from a warehouse club, advertising 'top tier' gas, that is consistently the least expensive available.

I've had occasion to drive DFW area of Texas, and the local drivers seem to willfully ignore posted speed limits, with most traffic moving at 75-80, and the occasional nut job well into the 90's. In that environment, no car will get the EPA highway numbers, as the aero drag will kill FE. But even in that drive cycle, the TCH will do decent, at very least keeping the EPA ratio, i.e. 10-15% improvement relative to the I4 ICE-only Camry version.

[rjp]

Originally Posted by Frodo65

I've had occasion to drive DFW area of Texas, and the local drivers seem to willfully ignore posted speed limits, with most traffic moving at 75-80, and the occasional nut job well into the 90's. In that environment, no car will get the EPA highway numbers, as the aero drag will kill FE. But even in that drive cycle, the TCH will do decent, at very least keeping the EPA ratio, i.e. 10-15% improvement relative to the I4 ICE-only Camry version.

Il agree with your assessment of DFW drivers, worse in the country from a speed standpoint. Good practice for NASCAR if that is in your plans.

I will wait a few weeks to see what the dealers get. Relative to the Camry Hybrid.

Thanks