2012 Camry Hybrid LE vs XLE

[renault4]

Hello folks, I am new to this forum, though not new to Toyota, our next purchase will be our 10th Toyota!

We have been looking at the 2012 TCH, and based on our needs, we believe either an LE or a base XLE will satisfy our requirements. In the latter case we neither need (nor wish to have to pay for) any of the options. I am not in a hurry and not needing to trade in, so in a good purchase position.

The main trade-off between the LE and the XLE (at least the base model) seems to be the wheels; steel 16" with cover versus 17" alloy; however there is also a weight gain and concomitant drop in MPG; does anyone know, does this come from the wheel difference?

I had been thinking that for the difference in price, I could afford to buy a nice set of 17" (or even 18") rims and low rolling resistance tires for an LE, but if that contributes to a ~3MPG or so drop, i am starting to defeat the purpose of going for a hybrid in the first place!

any thoughts appreciated, thanks

[AML]

Could be a number of things. Larger wheels and tires definitely play a roll. My dealer speculates that it could also be due to the extra weight of the options/features. But I'm not so sure if I buy that, since there wasn't an MPG difference between the last generation Camry Hybrid's that were equipped like the LE and those like the XLE. Interesting to note that regardless of options/trim-like level last generation, they all received the same 16" wheels.

[Vlad1024]

The difference in gas mileage is only a few percent so it probably is caused by heavier wheels and increased weight. Notice the difference in city mileage is greater than that on the highway because in the city your constantly coming to a stop and having to spin up the heavier wheels(they act as a flywheel). I don't think you should base you're decision on marginal difference in gas mileage but rather the features(and their usefulness) and how they drive.

[renault4]

based on the price difference between the LE and a base model of the XLE (if you could even find one, everything that is coming in seems pretty loaded); there is about a $1500 difference. Just mooching around TireRack, I found an 18" rim with Michelin LRR tires for about $1490 (image included). I do realize I will have to pay to have the tire pressure sensors transferred (hopefully they will actually transfer!).

looks nice to me!

[MAToyotaSales]

Truth is ANY fully loaded model is going to get worse MPG in an EPA test. Toyota is the first one to start being honest about it. The XLE gas model isn't going to get the same mpg as the base, it's just not tested alongside the base.

[renault4]

so let's see...

leather upholstery
motors for 8-way seat
additional mechanics for dual a/c
hardware for moonroof
upgraded audio/nav systems (minor)
heated side mirrors (minor)

will all contribute to weight gain along with increased contact surface area of the tires

yeah, I can see it. yet if you those options are important to you, the MPG penalty is small and your mileage is more likely to be affected by how you drive than this difference alone.

[Vlad1024]

Originally Posted by renault4

so let's see...

leather upholstery
motors for 8-way seat
additional mechanics for dual a/c
hardware for moonroof
upgraded audio/nav systems (minor)
heated side mirrors (minor)

will all contribute to weight gain along with increased contact surface area of the tires

yeah, I can see it. yet if you those options are important to you, the MPG penalty is small and your mileage is more likely to be affected by how you drive than this difference alone.

the penalty for the increase in rotating mass from the wheel/tire combo is much greater than the weight from these things.

[renault4]

fair nuff; then does anyone have a guess as to the likely weight of a factory- shod LE 16" wheel?

[ukrkoz]

first time I hear about making decision on buying a BRAND NEW CAR FROM DEALERSHIP($$$$$$$ and instant 20% depreciation as soon as it's bought) based on wheel size.
esp. if "I am not in a hurry" situation is claimed. this is so much alpha buyer attitude it is just beyond me. can't you wait, as claimed, for about 2 yrs and pick it for half price off c-list or even small dealership, when they start coming out of lease? like I got mine: $32 000 pre tax all options owner purchase vs. me paying him $18 000 at 36 000 miles?
but yes, I know, it's a rhetorical question. alphas don't think that way.

also, just as fun part to think of:

Well, my dealer just got back to me on this. They said that all 2012 Camrys, no matter which model, have the same display type showing all 4 tires in a row. They also said it's not possible to know which tire pressure symbol on the display corresponds to which actual tire. That's because with tire rotation, the transponder would be out of synch with the display if it did show that.

So the answer is if 1 or more tires shows low on the display, you have to go out there and physically check each tire to find out which tire (or tires) needs more air.

My dealer confirms the inability to know which tire has what air pressure via the Tire Pressure Monitor Display. In fact, my dealer states the display reports the first tire sensor reporting its pressure and adds the pressures as each sensor reports. And they don't always report in the same order each time. So rotated or not, it is a guesser's guesting game at best. Someone fell asleep at the programming and display station on this one.

[ToyotaHeng]

Originally Posted by renault4

Hello folks, I am new to this forum, though not new to Toyota, our next purchase will be our 10th Toyota!

We have been looking at the 2012 TCH, and based on our needs, we believe either an LE or a base XLE will satisfy our requirements. In the latter case we neither need (nor wish to have to pay for) any of the options. I am not in a hurry and not needing to trade in, so in a good purchase position.

The main trade-off between the LE and the XLE (at least the base model) seems to be the wheels; steel 16" with cover versus 17" alloy; however there is also a weight gain and concomitant drop in MPG; does anyone know, does this come from the wheel difference?

I had been thinking that for the difference in price, I could afford to buy a nice set of 17" (or even 18") rims and low rolling resistance tires for an LE, but if that contributes to a ~3MPG or so drop, i am starting to defeat the purpose of going for a hybrid in the first place!

any thoughts appreciated, thanks

You may have already "pulled the trigger" but, here is my 2 cents. I just picked up the TCH XLE 3 days ago after test driving the LE. I think it all comes down to whether you want all the options. We choose the XLE, with almost every option package. Not sure if I will use the sat radio and Entune after the "trial/complimentary" period ends but, the bigger Nav screen and sound system is nice. The biggest SoCal dealer internet sales rep told me these cars are sold before they come in to their dealership and they are sold at MSRP. I was only able to take a quick peek at a XLE getting prepped for delivery. Going through the Consumer Reports buying program, I was able to get ours just a little over the dealer invoice, when I found another local dealer that participated in that program. So far we have driven it only about 200 miles but, my trip yesterday was about 75 miles (evening L.A. area freeway traffic) and so far, using Eco mode, the mileage is around 41 mpg. I usually drive pretty smoothly to achieve good gas mileage anyway so, that mileage doesn't surprise me. With all the immediate feedback about instantaneous mileage, I was surprised that on level roadways it was reading closer to 50mpg. I will have to see how the gas mileage is on longer trips. But, it is great to see that the expected range on a full tank of gas is over 660 miles! Note that a full tank of gas comes with the new car now. It's printed on the sticker. As for buying the car used, I decided that it might be difficult to get a good one just a few years old, especially if gas prices keep rising, and since I keep my cars for a pretty long time, it makes sense to get a new one. At least that was my rationale. If you look at the cost of ownership on Consumer Reports, after 8 years, the cumulative cost is down to 45 cents/mile. I will have to report back as I put more miles on it. We will be taking some roadtrips later this year to Las Vegas, Sedona and Colorado Springs, so I will get a good chance to see the gas mileage in a variety of conditions. I have a San Diego trip in 12 days so, I will report back then.

Good luck with the car shopping.

Henry

[ToyotaHeng]

Originally Posted by ukrkoz

first time I hear about making decision on buying a BRAND NEW CAR FROM DEALERSHIP($$$$$$$ and instant 20% depreciation as soon as it's bought) based on wheel size.
esp. if "I am not in a hurry" situation is claimed. this is so much alpha buyer attitude it is just beyond me. can't you wait, as claimed, for about 2 yrs and pick it for half price off c-list or even small dealership, when they start coming out of lease? like I got mine: $32 000 pre tax all options owner purchase vs. me paying him $18 000 at 36 000 miles?
but yes, I know, it's a rhetorical question. alphas don't think that way.

also, just as fun part to think of:

Well, my dealer just got back to me on this. They said that all 2012 Camrys, no matter which model, have the same display type showing all 4 tires in a row. They also said it's not possible to know which tire pressure symbol on the display corresponds to which actual tire. That's because with tire rotation, the transponder would be out of synch with the display if it did show that.

So the answer is if 1 or more tires shows low on the display, you have to go out there and physically check each tire to find out which tire (or tires) needs more air.

My dealer confirms the inability to know which tire has what air pressure via the Tire Pressure Monitor Display. In fact, my dealer states the display reports the first tire sensor reporting its pressure and adds the pressures as each sensor reports. And they don't always report in the same order each time. So rotated or not, it is a guesser's guesting game at best. Someone fell asleep at the programming and display station on this one.

Having just picked up the car earlier this week, I haven't even initiated the Tire Pressure system but, did see the screen with the four tires in a row. I appreciate the information that Toyota is saying that they are not able to represent the tire positions on the screen. But, that seems strange when my son's Acura TSX Tire Pressure system is able to give good information on tire pressure of each tire in the different positions. That is very helpful as you try to ensure that tire pressures are what they should be. Having been a Honda guy for quite a few years after my first car, a 1974 Toyota Corolla SR5, I bought during the gas crisis, I guess I have to say Honda has Toyota beat on this feature. Still, I jumped the Honda/Acura ship after 10 of them from my 1976 Civic to the 2007 TSX for this TCH XLE. Looking forward to enjoying this car for many years.

Henry

[venzoid]

I've just done some research:

LE is only around 20 lbs lighter
LE does not have fog lights, power adj driver seat, alloys, bluetooth, self dimming rear view mirror with compass. In Canada, both cars come with heated mirrors

LE has 16 inch steels versus 17 inch alloys
The steels are also thinner 205 versus 215s for the alloys (this may be another reason for better fuel econ, thinner tire less friction wear)
Steels also have a higher side profile so they may be quieter and softer.

There is a 2 mpg difference in both city and highway numbers: LE is more efficient.

Looks like it comes down to good looks (XLE) versus fuel eff. and slighter softer ride (LE). Although the XLE comes with a power seat which is easier for fine adjustments.

In Canada, no LEs yet. I'm waiting...

The price difference is $2000

[swingman]

Hybrid LE has bluetooth..at least in the US (listed with audio system as BLU Logic® Hands Free System)

On the LE,
does the steering wheel having any controls (audio or otherwise)?

Not listed in features but when looking at the pics, the left side of steering wheel appears to have controls for something (just missing controls on right side)

[05CamryGuy]

A 20lbs difference may contribute a little bit to the lower mpg but could the difference also be due to added power drawn by all those extra electronic features in the XLE compared to the LE?

All those added motors, actuators, and electronic gadgets will surely take their share of power from the battery.

[molson.david]

LE is only around 20 lbs lighter

according to the specs LE hybrid is 170lbs or so lighter.

question:
anybody seen LE hybrid with 6.1 screen radio?
all LE's comes with 6.1 screen, but every LE hybrid I've seen on dealer's lot got basic radio with no touch screen.
all standard LE stuff + 17" alloy wheels, faux wood trim, but no touch screen...
is it available on LE hybrid at all?