Where is the 2013 Camry? - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums
Camry Hybrid Discussion area for the Toyota Camry Hybrid. Topics of discussion range from fuel economy, safety, modifications, performance all involving Americas favorite family car, the Toyota Camry.

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#1 Old 11-21-2012, 08:11 PM
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USA Where is the 2013 Camry?

What is going on? Its over mid Nov and Toyota has not beeped on a 2013 Camry model?

To me, this means they are desperately working on quite a few additions vs 2012, to heads of competition from Ford and such. Maybe a plug in version. Maybe all electric? Added features such as variable automatic cruise control? I know they just got the 2012 redesigned but don't they need those updates to stay in the competition? Why Toyota is quiet about this? Every other year, by now we should have been able to seen the next year model.

Thoughts? Any info? I have seen other treads on the 2013 but they are not that useful new information wise.
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#2 Old 11-21-2012, 08:56 PM
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thoughts?? No way would I want to mess with plugging in my car! it's bad enough plugging in my phone and tablet. seriously, I do not want a distance-limited vehicle; nor do I want the hassle of having to plug it in somewhere, even at home. no thanks.

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#3 Old 11-21-2012, 10:10 PM
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Given the fact that the current Camry is just over a year old and selling quite well, I suspect Toyota has been putting resources into other things. The new Avalon just popped and it's produced at the same plant. It seems that alone could have pushed the the '13's to a later date. That said...I would guess the first of the year for the '13. The only rumor I've heard for the '13 is a flex-fuel option for the 4 cyl. gas version. Nothing on the hybrid.

If you want to enjoy your car....stay off the internet.
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#4 Old 11-21-2012, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by dave1812 View Post
thoughts?? No way would I want to mess with plugging in my car! it's bad enough plugging in my phone and tablet. seriously, I do not want a distance-limited vehicle; nor do I want the hassle of having to plug it in somewhere, even at home. no thanks.
I agree. A plug in car is the last thing I would want. And Toyota recently announced that they are not going to do an all electric vehicle any time soon.

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#5 Old 11-22-2012, 07:35 AM
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Just a clarification.

A plugin Hybrid is not the same as an EV.

It is still a hybrid but with a large battery that you can charge at home to get an extended EV driving range. In all other ways it still operates the same as our current TCHs.

It is something I would seriously consider but may have to pass on because of the increased cost.
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#6 Old 11-22-2012, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by cdn_tch View Post
It is still a hybrid but with a large battery that you can charge at home to get an extended EV driving range. In all other ways it still operates the same as our current TCHs.
As the Camry is now, the battery reduces trunk space from 15.4 cubic feet to 13.1 or a loss of 2.3 cubic feet or 15%. This is to get about 2 miles maximum of EV only operation. Would you really want to give up 30% of your trunk to get 4 miles of EV? Not me. I find the hybrid trunk on the small side already for a mid sized sedan.

And depending on your power rates you may pay all this extra money, give up the space, and endure the hassle of plugging it in every day just to save a few pennies, or not even break even.

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#7 Old 11-22-2012, 05:37 PM
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USA When will Toyota tell us about the 2013 Camry?

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Originally Posted by Ron AKA View Post
As the Camry is now, the battery reduces trunk space from 15.4 cubic feet to 13.1 or a loss of 2.3 cubic feet or 15%. This is to get about 2 miles maximum of EV only operation. Would you really want to give up 30% of your trunk to get 4 miles of EV? Not me. I find the hybrid trunk on the small side already for a mid sized sedan.

And depending on your power rates you may pay all this extra money, give up the space, and endure the hassle of plugging it in every day just to save a few pennies, or not even break even.
The issue is not an EV or trunk space. They can use a different battery technology (for example what is the connection between battery capacity, driving all electric at higher speeds, better MPG even without plugin option?).

Does not matter, I do not wish for a pure electric ala Nissan Leaf.

But sure would like to see the new hybrid with a new battery / which provides more Amps to drive at higher speeds / which has more capacity with same volume taken - just to name a few. Not to mention other goodies.

I think Toyota has a problem hence the delay. If it was just same same, that would be no issue to release 2013 with just a few cosmetic changes.

I think there will be quite a few changes, the 2012 Camry was released in a hurry as they were taking so long and was overdue. But Toyota has not made all possible innovations. Ford did and Ford Fusion Hybrid/Plugin can be a Camry killer (and non hybrid of course).
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#8 Old 11-23-2012, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by CamryHybrid2011 View Post
The issue is not an EV or trunk space. They can use a different battery technology (for example what is the connection between battery capacity, driving all electric at higher speeds, better MPG even without plugin option?).

Does not matter, I do not wish for a pure electric ala Nissan Leaf.

But sure would like to see the new hybrid with a new battery / which provides more Amps to drive at higher speeds / which has more capacity with same volume taken - just to name a few. Not to mention other goodies.

I think Toyota has a problem hence the delay. If it was just same same, that would be no issue to release 2013 with just a few cosmetic changes.

I think there will be quite a few changes, the 2012 Camry was released in a hurry as they were taking so long and was overdue. But Toyota has not made all possible innovations. Ford did and Ford Fusion Hybrid/Plugin can be a Camry killer (and non hybrid of course).
I'm with you on this one. I like toyota's secrecy till they bring a new model or improvement's over last years model.

Something must be going on, last year the SE's came out in October. By mid November the lots were slowly filling with new Camry hybrids.
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#9 Old 11-23-2012, 11:23 AM
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Something must be going on, last year the SE's came out in October. By mid November the lots were slowly filling with new Camry hybrids.
Toyota had some really tough times with the runaway accelerator issue, the nuclear disaster in Japan, and the of course the recession on top of that. They have probably set some lofty targets for 2012 sales to recover financially. Reports would show they are doing very well. However, they may be playing a bit of a game to increase 2012 sales, by extending the normal production run. Also since the 2013 Avalon power train is identical to the 2012 Camry, I suspect they have nothing substantial to offer new for 2013.

I know the sales manager for a Chrysler dealership, and Chrysler (at least in Canada) is doing a similar trick with the 1/2 ton diesel trucks. There has been a change in emission regulations that takes effect Jan 1, 2013. After this date DEF emission systems have to be installed on the engines. They are running the 2012 production right to the last minute to avoid the DEF requirement. It is a pain in the butt and an additional expense for owners.

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#10 Old 11-23-2012, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by CamryHybrid2011 View Post
The issue is not an EV or trunk space. They can use a different battery technology (for example what is the connection between battery capacity, driving all electric at higher speeds, better MPG even without plugin option?).But sure would like to see the new hybrid with a new battery / which provides more Amps to drive at higher speeds / which has more capacity with same volume taken - just to name a few. Not to mention other goodies.
Space and weight of batteries is always an issue. Toyota has moved the inverter to the front of the car and there is only the two batteries left in the trunk. Potentially they could move the 12V to under the hood, but it sure looks crowded in there now... This would allow them to use a normal vented battery worth $50 or so, instead of the $300 sealed AGM unit.

LiIon batteries would save some space and weight, or increase capacity while maintaining space the same. However, I suspect the battery or the drive motor is not the issue. The motor is rated at about 70 KW, or about 94 HP. However it only is used for about 45 HP. The limitation is probably current flow through the inverter. To increase electric power would require a major upgrade of the inverter, and make it bigger. Where would it go? Back to the trunk?

The other really big issue is life of the LiIon batteries. Toyota had gained an excellent reputation for reliability with the NiMH batteries. They are better suited to the hybrid service when it comes to battery life. How would they handle the issue of the batteries not lasting the normal life of the car, and that the LiIon batteries are much more expensive. Hyundai has offered a lifetime warranty, but time will tell if that is going to become a financial burden. I wouldn't touch LiIon unless there was an ironclad warranty.

With respect to more speed in EV mode, my guess it is not a battery or power issue. It is the maximum speed rating of MG-1. With the 2012 model year maximum speed was increased to 13,000 RPM. I'm thinking they are not likely to make another major transaxle change just one year later. Play around with this Prius simulator and you will see how maximum speed in this version of the Prius is limited to about 42 mph. MG-1 in this case is limited to 6,500 rpm. Above that the ICE has to start and spin.

I may be pleasantly surprised, but I suspect they are simply selling as many 2012's as they can, as they have nothing new to offer for 2013. My big hope is that they would finally fix the trunk lid so you don't bang your head on it.

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#11 Old 11-24-2012, 07:39 AM
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Toyota can sell same car with minor cosmetic changes as model 2013. See other models that they sell as such. E.g. Corolla.

Who will buy at the end of the year or next year a 2012 model? To me its like the wait before the 2012 model came out as they tried sell the 2011 models. Only that in Aug Toyota announced the 2012 model which was on dealers lots in Oct. last year.

Something is going on. I expect quite a few extra features. If I was to buy now I would have waited to see the 2013 model. Even if you buy the 2012 one that could be heavily discounted as the 2011 was when the 2012 has been revealed.

So there will be quite a few changes to catch up to Ford Fusion.
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#12 Old 11-24-2012, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by CamryHybrid2011 View Post
So there will be quite a few changes to catch up to Ford Fusion.
The normal cycle that manufacturers follow is 4-5 years between major updates. The Camry had its first since introduced 2007 in 2012. Next one will likely be 2017 or so.

Ford has downsized their ICE from 2.5 to 2.0 L. I will wait to see what acceleration performance is like on the Fusion Hybrid before I decide who is catching up to who.

Ford however appear to have stolen my idea of integrating the hybrid control system with the GPS to manage the hybrid system based on where you are going. Current systems have no idea and hedge their bets. This is very interesting, and I'm sure as it is refined will produce significant mileage improvements. They call it EV+.

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Last edited by Ron AKA; 11-24-2012 at 10:44 AM.
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#13 Old 11-24-2012, 11:05 AM
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So if no big changes how hard is it to get mostly same car labeled as 2013 model ?
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#14 Old 11-24-2012, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by CamryHybrid2011 View Post
What is going on? Its over mid Nov and Toyota has not beeped on a 2013 Camry model?

To me, this means they are desperately working on quite a few additions vs 2012, to heads of competition from Ford and such. Maybe a plug in version. Maybe all electric? Added features such as variable automatic cruise control? I know they just got the 2012 redesigned but don't they need those updates to stay in the competition? Why Toyota is quiet about this? Every other year, by now we should have been able to seen the next year model.

Thoughts? Any info? I have seen other treads on the 2013 but they are not that useful new information wise.
I have been wondering the same thing. I want to buy a leftover 2012 TCH--loaded.MSRP of $32,400. My way of thinking is the discount should be exceptional.I'm looking at and hoping 15%. $27-28 range. I think your correct about some changes.Leather interior needs to get rid of that insert stuff on the seats and go full leather.BUT--with that said--I,m more than willing to put up with the interior for the mileage factor. I also like the exterior styling--simple but nice. I compare it to my Optima Hybrid. Optima is a sleek beautiful looking car--but the leather is not the best and the hybrid system is nothing short of horrible. Great highway MPG but crummy city. The worst part is the system is not refinded. Bucks and hesitates when starting from stop. Once your at 30 mph it settles down but still lags when you want to go. Thats why I want to go back to Toyota. I had a 2007 Camry hybrid--beautiful car--but had that lag from a stop to go.I also had two Prius's the hybrid system was perfect--just not big enough for me. Drove the 2012 Camry hybrid and it was perfect--no lag at all. Now perfected. Any feedback on that!!!---anyway the dealer at this time is not really discounting much. I prefer to lease--but--no factory backed leases at this time for the top line model. Sooooo I wait for the2013's to show. When that happens I'm thinking they have to do something to rid themselves of old inventory--or keep paying for having it on the lot. Thanks for listening to me ramble----any thoughts would be helpful.
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#15 Old 11-24-2012, 01:44 PM
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Drove the 2012 Camry hybrid and it was perfect--no lag at all. Now perfected. Any feedback on that!!!---anyway the dealer at this time is not really discounting much.
I've only driven the 2012 hybrid, so nothing to compare to except conventional vehicles. I've heard that Toyota's objective for the 2012 that was to make a hybrid drive so the driver could not tell it from a conventional vehicle. I would say they have succeeded, and perhaps even exceeded that goal. I occasionally feel the ICE start, but it does not detract from the performance. And I hear a slight electric motor/generator whine when stopping. Neither bother me a bit. I translate the whine to cha-ching -- saving money. And the ingenious planetary gear CVT far exceeds any automatic I have driven. I drove a rental Chrysler 200 with a V6 for 4,000 km this summer. The power was not significantly different than the Camry hybrid, and the transmission in comparison was bad. I have to give it credit for one thing though. It was the first automatic I've driven that downshifted in cruise to maintain speed going DOWN a hill. It was rough and noticeable, but it worked in maintaining speed.

If dealers are not going to give you a significant discount like 20% I would wait for the 2013. I'm sure they will make a few tweaks to improve it, and you will avoid one year of depreciation.

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