Camry HybridDiscussion area for the Toyota Camry Hybrid. Topics of discussion range from fuel economy, safety, modifications, performance all involving Americas favorite family car, the Toyota Camry.
This news article indicates that lowly LiIon batteries have grounded the world's newest jumbo jet - the 787 Dreamliner. Looks like Toyota has made a good decision in not rushing into using the LiIon technology, at least in the Camry hybrid.
This news article indicates that lowly LiIon batteries have grounded the world's newest jumbo jet - the 787 Dreamliner. Looks like Toyota has made a good decision in not rushing into using the LiIon technology, at least in the Camry hybrid.
I read many times that Lithium batteries are very sensitive to overcharging, causing them to overheat. The article says these were made by GS Yuasa Corp. Next time maybe they should use Panasonic batteries.
I read many times that Lithium batteries are very sensitive to overcharging, causing them to overheat. The article says these were made by GS Yuasa Corp. Next time maybe they should use Panasonic batteries.
Chargers should be designed to shut off or go to a trickle charge when fully charged when dealing with rechargeable lithium's.
Next time maybe they should use Panasonic batteries.
Please ... no Panasonics. The only knock I've ever had on Toyota vehicles ... and my 2012 TCH is the 10th Toyota I've bought for myself or for a family member since 1976 ... has been the El Crappo Panasonic batteries Toyota installs as OEM products. Every one has off-gassed excessively, resulting in untimely corrosion of battery-clamp bars, battery terminals and cables, and other nearby metal components under the hood. The only things I've ever replaced on Toyotas has been the OEM batteries ... all replaced with Optima batteries. I've never replaced an Optima.
I've seen the battery in my TCH only once: during the first week after purchasing this car, I removed the battery cover to apply liberal doses of Fluid Film to the terminals and cables. I didn't notice whether it was a Panasonic. I'll look again in a year or so.
In my cell phones and laptops, Li ion batteries have been a miserable failure. After a year or two their life is essentially cut in half. Most people I know who buy a new device do so because the cost of replacing the battery is pretty much the same as the new electronic device.
Is the life so short because of the way these devices manage the batteries or is it a characteristic of the Li ion battery itself?
The original traction motor battery packs that Toyota used were standard consumer NiMH batteries made by Panasonic. Later they went to specialized versions by Panasonic. The last I recall is that Toyota bought the factory from Panasonic, or bought the technology. Bottom line is that they are still essentially Panasonic.
Not sure about the 12 volt. I couldn't find a name on it.
It will be interesting to find out what the problem is with the 787 batteries. It may not be the battery, and could be the charger, or even just the overall design. Perhaps the batteries are being overloaded at times and as a result overheat. Or perhaps they are being drained down and then recharged too fast.
Due to the cold night weather and my old age I decided to stay at home for 5 days. The '12 TCH sat out under the carport during that time with temperatures down to 5 degrees. Tonight it warmed up enough to go to town to eat and buy some groceries. I remembered to check the 12 volt supply reading using the scan gauge in the TCH before starting the car. It read 12.1 volts dc and 14.1 volts evidently charging on the way to town.
The 12 volt battery supplies power for all the lights, fans and especially to the ECU.
I remember when I had the '07 TCH when it was 5 years old I would let it sit for a few days due to high dust due to storms. The 12 volt battery would then read 11.5 volts, but was still able to start the car normally. Best I remember most car batteries would last about 3 years. Could be the heat under the hood may cause the shorter life. The TCH being a deep-cycle battery located away from the engine heat may be why it last so long.
It will be interesting to find out what the problem is with the 787 batteries. It may not be the battery, and could be the charger, or even just the overall design. Perhaps the batteries are being overloaded at times and as a result overheat. Or perhaps they are being drained down and then recharged too fast.
Bingo. Some other part of the aircraft may be causing this problem. Somebody probably left the light on in the cargo hold or something.
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We buy a car every nine years.
The problem is they don't quit working.
94 Camry, 03 Camry, 2012 Camry Hybrid - all in use.
Bingo. Some other part of the aircraft may be causing this problem. Somebody probably left the light on in the cargo hold or something.
I suspect when the cargo doors are open, there are no engines running, so no charger current. Perhaps running on battery only. This would suggest the battery current demand may be too high. That is the Boston situation.
But the Japan one, I believe happened in flight. They should have had lots of charge current at that point in time, and batteries would be charging or just floating with no load.
Not so obvious what is going on. Haven't seen much on how old these two planes are. Perhaps it also could be a cumulative cycle that is adding up much too fast.
In any case not a good advertisement for LiIon batteries or the 787.
I suspect LiIon technology was chosen because its high power-to-weight ratio makes these batteries quite attractive for aviation use, but FAA regulations still limit the size and number of LiIon batteries a passenger can carry onto a commercial aircraft for a reason: They can be dangerous. I suspect the current problem will most likely be traced to an incorrect charging protocol, but who knows... these batteries may also be affected by other aeronautical processes, like constant pressurization cycles. It will indeed be interesting to see where they eventually lay the blame. Thankfully, it appears the problem was caught early, before we lost a plane full of people.
Here is an updated report with a bit more detail. It appears they are zeroing in on the battery charging system. Apparently the Boston fire occurred when the battery had seen heavy use, was discharged, and then was being recharged using a plug in ground unit power supply. Even though, I would expect the plane must take the ground unit and route it though the plane charger to control charging.
They say it that the battery is seeing too high a voltage during a low battery recharge. That means amps will be high and the battery will heat up. This is a bit surprising as any kind of sophisticated charger should monitor charging current and using feedback control the charger voltage to in turn limit current. Your home auto charger most often is not that smart, and simply applies a constant voltage. That is why you see a high current, slowly dropping off as the battery charges.
I would hope any hybrid car is smarter than that. But it will not be as much of an issue as the hybrid battery is controlled to keep it in mid range of charge. You would only subject a hybrid battery to this kind of service if you intentionally discharged the battery down to a low level, and then recharged it up to a high level. Also that is probably why Toyota has a cooling system on it's battery -- to get rid of heat when it is charging.
Another lesson in this for hybrid owners is the 12 volt battery. Toyota says to limit charging to 5 amps. Most incidents of 12 volt battery failure seem to be initiated by a full discharge of the battery (left lights on, or let it sit a long time, etc...). It makes you wonder if Toyota actually limits charge current to 5 amps with their built in charger. The safest way to deal with a discharged 12 volt battery, is to use a small trickle charger of 2 amps or so, and fully charge it before turning the car back on.
I expect the solution to Boeing's problem is a redesigned charger. The advantage of a LiIon is supposed to be a fast recharge. It looks like they are pushing that advantage too hard, and finding out it can't be recharged as fast as they think they can. Wonder if that will have any impact on turn around time when they deplane and plane. Perhaps some time in the future if you are sitting on the runway in a 787 a long time before take off, it may be that you are waiting for the current limited chargers to fully recharge the LiIon batteries.
Imagine that. A large passenger plane with huge jet engines, reduced to the status of a Chevrolet Volt with a discharged battery sitting in the driveway, waiting for a full recharge...
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2012 Camry XLE Hybrid
Last edited by Ron AKA; 01-20-2013 at 11:19 AM.
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I've noticed exhaust gases coming out of a commercial jet liner just below the tail while it is stationary at a gate. I've thought that this is some kind of an auxiliary engine/generator for when the jet engines are not on. Am I correct? Has this been replaced by the Li ion batteries in the new plane? Is this plane a kind of hybrid for the aviation world or do the batteries play a more minor role?
You are correct, venzoid. The device producing the exhaust is called an APU -- an auxiliary power unit -- and it normally provides power to the craft when the engines are not lit.
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