Project update (flowbench results) - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

CrawlingEye · 10-05-2005, 02:08 PM

As some of you may know, I'm having a head built for my 5S. Where the build stands at the moment is that I still need to purchase valve springs, which we've already found a source for. We're going to need to order new buckets too, because the head spit 2 shims while the cams were being hand turned. We've sourced a shimless bucket conversion from a JDM toyota. I do not have specs for it as my builder (ChrisK of ) spoke with a Toyota rep which returned us with the buckets we required (28mm bucket, either shim under or shimless... it's a small bucket pre-'93 5S head). The springs we're planning to run are from TEDcomponents and are designed for a 4AGE 16 valve, they're rated at 65lbs seat pressure and 250lbs open pressure for the single spring kit and 66lbs seat pressure and 300lbs open pressure for the dual spring kit... I'm undecided on which set of springs I may go with, the dual kit may be an overkill but the price difference is quite small so I may just go with the dual.

As for what's currently completed with the head?

-Fully ported and polished
-1.5mm oversized valves (32mm valve size)
-Custom cams using rav4 3sfe cores ground to .370/.390 lift and 220/228 duration @.050"
-Milled to 10-1 CR and decked
-Radiused valve job

Now on with the fun part:
The head's flowbench results are 265CFM and 315 ft/sec velocity. I'm extremely happy with these results. If everything works out well, this should put down some very respectable numbers.

What else is in the works for the car?

-Possibly a Megasquirt 2 (or another form of EMS, I haven't really had time to look through the options yet)
-s54 tranny swap with a CM/findanza flywheel, complete with all speedsource accessories and a clutch/pressure plate kit
-Chamfered crankshaft journals
-Machined crankshaft to accept 3sgte (factory forged) rods
-Custom CP high compression pistons (looking at somewhere between 11-1 or 12-1 final CR)
-Current Gen Camry oil pump (flows better than a 3sgte pump)

I'm hoping to have the head on and running within a couple months (we're going to be waiting for the buckets to be shipped from japan a couple weeks yet), then I'll post some dyno results, providing I can still find an open track in a couple months I'll post track results as well.

HUGE props to ChrisK at Engine Logics in Houston Texas for all the machine work on the head, Ken from OregonCamshaft for the rav4 3sfe cam source and grinds and Richard from TED Components for the help with valve springs and so forth.

http://www.enginelogics.com
http://www.oregoncamshaft.com
http://www.tedcomponents.com

***Hamsterman*** · 10-05-2005, 02:21 PM

man, can't wait to see the numbers, glad you got the cams figured out

CrawlingEye · 10-05-2005, 02:39 PM

Yeah, it was a PITA. Our 5S cores ground down the base circle past the the bearing journals. Luckily the 3sfe cores fit and were identical except the larger base circle.

***Eye8Pussies*** · 10-05-2005, 04:41 PM

can't wait foir numbers

rusty9 · 10-05-2005, 05:17 PM

very cool man. respect for going all motor.

squeeze every last horse out of that baby.

CrawlingEye · 10-05-2005, 10:42 PM

thanks, guys. I'm hoping to put down some of the better numbers (hoping for the best) that an NA 5S has produced.
I get quite antsy waiting to have it, but funds and sourcing takes time.

toyrolla · 10-06-2005, 11:12 PM

I'm rooting for you, Mark!

FALCON2691 · 10-10-2005, 06:48 PM

Id like to ask u, what made you chose the rav4 cam specs, where you looking for a specific rpm range or torque range, or did you talk to people and found out that it was a good alternative? What you did looks good to me, makes sence, i plan on going with the SC from ripp but still not sure, $$ and head flow make me consider the 3sgte. but origional motor in the gts is always respect

terrastrife · 10-10-2005, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FALCON2691

Id like to ask u, what made you chose the rav4 cam specs, where you looking for a specific rpm range or torque range, or did you talk to people and found out that it was a good alternative? What you did looks good to me, makes sence, i plan on going with the SC from ripp but still not sure, $$ and head flow make me consider the 3sgte. but origional motor in the gts is always respect

and thats hwy youre still a 'Noob'

he just used the cams if you continue to read that same line you will see theyve been reground.

FALCON2691 · 10-10-2005, 07:54 PM

OK To help out with the power trip, what made you use the cam specs you used as noted before. because i am a noob and thats why im asking questions so i could learn, maybe you could awnser my question terra? i do understand about the short rod ratio and where is giving power on the power stroke (in short, sooner), i understand that this short rod affects our exaust port but may help with back wash of exaust into the intake. thus i think i can open and close my exaust valve sooner? or more of a overlap? not too sure yet. also, did you have a formula for getting the size of your valve vs lift for maximum flow along with velocity? what is a "good" velocity?
thanks for any help, ive got alot of information im trying to organize it and put it into reality its not all black and white i know that much. i also know the torque advantages of this motor and would like to know whats the best way to use this as an advantage for best overall performance.

CrawlingEye · 10-10-2005, 08:20 PM

Falcon, I'm not trying to discourage you, but you have some learning to do before you should try anything.

The rod length plays no role in valve overlap and if you would decrease your rod length, you would lose compression, not something you would want to do.

Now there is a formula that we used for valve size vs piston size (a correct ratio), but I won't give out Chris's secrets. You can contact a head builder and find this out. I would also suggest not trying to port your own head or install your own valves. Without proper knowledge or equipment, there's a lot that can go wrong.

Your valve overlap is determined by where you place the cams in correlation to one another (you'll need to degree them). The cams themselves don't inherently decide this.

FALCON2691 · 10-10-2005, 09:47 PM

as for the cams i think maybe i was thinking too much of the single cam v8 ideas...when i was thinking about the rod length, and that probably is why twin cam might be better (dont really know),makes sence. it was again bad wording on my part, "rod ratio" would be the correct term. however from what i found you do need a substatial change in rod ration to make a change, however again from what ive found the 5sfe motor has a 1.58 ratio where as i was told that 1.6 was quite a small ratio. bringing up high torque.
And thanks..."valve ratio"...that helps, sometimes i need to figure out the question

here is the site where i started with the rod ratio thing

http://www.turbobricks.org/forums/sh...992#post312992

i do realize that it doesnt have much affect on the motor but the 5sfe and the 3sgte are quite extreme in these aspects.

i dont actually plan on doing the actual work myself, but if i had to choose something i would like to know what and why, maybe theres a bit i can do.
im hoping this would give me some good idea on how to choose my cam specs

thanks for the help keep it comin!

88 LE · 10-11-2005, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FALCON2691

here is the site where i started with the rod ratio thing

http://www.turbobricks.org/forums/sh...992#post312992

i do realize that it doesnt have much affect on the motor but the 5sfe and the 3sgte are quite extreme in these aspects.

Rods are the same length on a 3S and 5S. 5S has larger big end bore though.

5S has longer stroke vs. 3S. 3.58" vs. 3.39". The difference is in the crank.

5S has slightly larger bore. 3.43" vs. 3.39"

I also believe the 5S has a taller deck height.

3S is square. Meaning the bore and stroke is the same (3.39").