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Here is the story:
95 1MZ non ABS
I've owned the car now for a few months. Since I have had it I kept hearing a loud noise *kinda like 4x4 trucks going down the road* coming from the rear of my car. Figured it was the tire, and sure enough I noticed uneven wear on the driver side rear tire. Replaced that tire with the spare *full size tire, not a "spare". Took this time to replace the brakes on all 4 disk and rotate the tires. Since doing this I have noticed at speeds say above 40 or so I start to hear a loud noise, something like a roar (again makes me think of a truck with big mud tires going down the road), coming from the front driver side wheel area. Come to find out the brakes are sticking there. I jacked the front of my car up, and had the wheels turn. Passenger side moved freely, but driver side would stutter after a few rotations and then finally stop. I pulled the caliper and pads off again, recompressed and put it all back together again. Still it grabs and stops the wheel. I tried bleeding the brakes...still nothing. I'm not sure if the rotor is warped and catching the pads, the pads warped and catching the rotor, or if the caliper piston isn't letting off enough and causing the pads to make constant contact with the rotor?
I've also noticed that the brake pedal while firm when I press on the brakes, will slowly drop to the floor much like when you have a fluid leak. I checked to make sure I didn't have a leak and can't find one yet. The fluid in the lines is very black. A friend told me that it could be the piston inside the brake master cylinder allowing fluid back behind it due to a leaking gasket.
Any ideas on either of these two questions?
Last edited by Troyfrezze; 11-16-2005 at 06:56 PM.
as for the brakes not releasing you need to take all the caliper slide pins out and grease them real good. Pretty simple thing to do when you take the bolts out that hold the caliper to the bracket you can pus the sleeves the bolts go through out one side or the other clean them good and lubricate them with high temp grease.
as for the master cylinder leaking have you noticed fluid loss of any kind. It is possible for the fluid to leak pas the piston and sometimes it will leak back into the brake booster. You can pull the master cylinder off to see if there is any evidence of brake fluid leaking out the back of it where it mounts to the brake booster.
__________________
Chris
PLEASE DO NOT GET RID OF THE OLD TN AS WE KNOW IT.
Sure thing, I try the caliper slide pins later today. Found a lot more information on my problem once I did a search for the pins instead of just brakes in general.
Yea, I check around cause when I first started feeling the brake's loose stiffness I thought it was just like on my 93 when I had a busted hose. I got out and check after letting it fall a few times, but I couldn't find fluid anywhere. Then it finally occured to me that before my brakes would let off as it got near the floor, and I would start to roll again. But this time, It might go all the way to the floor, but I don't loose my brakes. *which is great when your parked on a downward slope sitting in traffic!* Now if it is the master cylinder, will I need to replace the entire cylinder, or can I just replaced the piston seals?
You have 2 seperate problems. I think Cyroke has you on the right track with the caliper slide pins on the first. Grease the caliper slide pins. Use a high temperature disc brake grease or a product called Sylglide, usually available at NAPA. If you are having any problems, refer to the generation 3 manual at the top of this forum. If this doesn't solve the problem, than the piston itself in that caliper may be seized. If that's the case, you will need to replace or rebuild the caliper. I would opt for replacing it, since if the piston is sticking, the caliper bore has probably rusted and contains some pits which now has to be properly honed before rebuilding. I would also have that rotor turned (may as well turn both if you didn't do it when you replaced the pads) as it could be warped as you mentioned. If it wasn't warped before you replaced the pads, it probably is now from all the heat generated by the pads being in constant contact with the rotor. This could also account for the pedal going to the floor. The heat generated by the pad being in constant contact with the rotor could be boiling the brake fluid causing the drop in pressure when the brakes are applied. I would repair the problem up front first and see if that solves both problems.
There is also a remote possibility that one of the rear emergency brake cables is sticking causing constant pressure on one of the rear shoes or pads. If this happens, again the pad being in constant contact with the rotor or drum back there could boil the brake fluid causing the pedal to go to the floor. If this is the case, you will have to replace the cable. To check for this just jack up the rear and spin the tires with the e-brake off, as you did on the fronts. If one wheel doesn't turn freely, you have found your problem. If you have rear discs, again check the slide pins and the caliper piston.
If none of the above solves the problem of the pedal going to the floor, then you do most likely have a problem with the master cylinder. It can leak externally with the fluid being sucked in to the brake booster as Cyorke pointed out, or it can leak internally with fluid bypassing the seals inside the master, causing the loss of pressure. Again you have 2 choices here. You can either replace the master cylinder with a new or rebuilt one or try to rebuild it yourself. Again, I would probably opt to just replace it. Either way, be sure to bench bleed it before reinstalling it. If you don't know how to do that, refer to the manual above.
After the problem is solved, if the fluid is black, I would recommend bleeding the entire brake system until new fluid appears coming out of each bleeder screw. It doesn't sound like this car previously has had much maintenance done to it's brake system. I would want to start with completely fresh fluid in the system to minimize the possibility of other hydraulic components failing.
Wow, thanks for all the great info!
Yea, the guy who owned it before me didn't do any work on it. He had a mechanic he always took it to that has been ripping him off. He was having so many problems with the car it was sad, but none of these problems existed so his loss was my gain. When I bought it from him he told me it was missing the power steering pump cap and would cost me a bit to replace, that the power steering was not working as it was leaking fluid all the time. He said that the mechanic had already replaced the master cylinder twice now because of problems with the brakes and there were a few other minor problems at the time I got it. As soon as I bought this lovly camry for $2000 I brought it home and dumped the oil, replaced that. Checked the trany fluid, and will be dumping that all soon. Noticed the brake fluid was black, and I still need to change that out. And noticed leaking oil from around the valve covers. That's going to get fixed soon too! Finally while going over everything in the engine bay I noticed the power steering cap imbedded into the lining under the hood, so I was able to replace the paper towel he had been using with the cap again! Also noticed the power steering fluid was mixed with transmission fluid so I purged that all out as much as I could, and put in Vavoline stop leak power steering fluid. That stopped the leak out of the driver side bellow on the rack and pinnion. I'm curious though, he gave me every bit of paperowork on the car, so I'm curious if I take it back to that mechanic if I could doanything about the master cylinder?
Here in a little bit I'll be running down to the local Advanced auto and picking up some high temp grease and I'll see what I can do about the brakes. I'll let you know if it works out for me or not. Thanks again for the wonderful information!
Well, I finally got around to taking care of the issue. You have to love newborns, they seem to think they deserve all the attention, that they are more important then the brakes on the car? Man...what egotistic little things!
Anyways, I did what you said and sure enough there was only a light coating of grease on the two pins. I cleaned everything off, and squeezed some new grease into the rubber sections, and coated both pins in some more grease also. After all was back together I took it for a quick drive and get some gas *can you belive I'm excited about gas being 2.13 a gallon!* I only took it for a quick drive, so it only got around 50 mph but the noise was barely there. In the morning I will take it up on the free way which is where I hear it the most. See how things go then. If I still here it in the morning, I'll probably just rotate the rotors and see if it suddenly moves over to the passenger side. Guess we will see in the morning, thanks again for the help.
Well after taking it for a drive today, I still hear the noise. So I took the driver side caliper itself apart and lubed it back up, and put it back together. Figured I'd do the same to the passenger side but when I went to take the sliding pins out, the bottom pin came out no problem, but the upper pin. There is just no moving the damn thing! It's jammed in there very well! I'm about to search the board to see if anyone else has had this problem, but if anyone happens to know how to get it out feel free to drop a line as I'll be around for a bit!
Well after taking it for a drive today, I still hear the noise. So I took the driver side caliper itself apart and lubed it back up, and put it back together. Figured I'd do the same to the passenger side but when I went to take the sliding pins out, the bottom pin came out no problem, but the upper pin. There is just no moving the damn thing! It's jammed in there very well! I'm about to search the board to see if anyone else has had this problem, but if anyone happens to know how to get it out feel free to drop a line as I'll be around for a bit!
I have had this problem too on my wife's 98 on the driver's side. You really have to work at it, but you will eventually get it out. You will probably destroy the little rubber boot there and will have to replace it along with that caliper slide pin. I would not recommend trying to clean up and reuse that slide pin, once you do get it out. It is probably very rusty and the plating has been worn off. It will rust again in a short period of time. You will find that the rubber boot has a metal ring at the base of the mounting bracket that you will have to pry off once you tear away the rubber portion. You simply tap in the new one. The parts should run about $20-$25 at the dealer. To get the pin off, take the torque plate (that's what Toyota calls the caliper mounting bracket) off the car and put it in a vice. You will have to remove the 2 17MM bolts to remove it from the car; not a big deal. (You have to take it off anyway to have the rotor turned, which you should also do, since it has probably warped from all the heat this problem has caused.) Then use lots of penetrating oil and really work it around and around at first until you get some circular movement. Then try moving it around as you pull outward. It will eventually come out. After you get it out you will have to clean up that hole in the torque plate really well. There will be rust and a few scratches down in there. I had it at a friend's shop and we did it with a bead blaster in a few seconds and then used compressed air to clean everything loose out of there. I would guess sand paper wrapped around a pencil would work just as well; it will just take longer. Be sure to blow out all the bits of sand and rust when you feel you have it clean. Then put some of the brake grease down in the hole. Next tap on the new boot making sure the ring portion seats flat against the torque plate. Now grease up the new slide pin and insert it. Remember, the top and bottom slide pins are different. One of them has a little rubber sleeve at the base of the pin inside the torque plate. I can't remember if it's the top or bottom one. (I think it's the top one but I'm not sure.) Take it with you to Toyota so you will get the right one. Reinstall the torque plate, then the brake pads and finally the caliper itself.
Thanks for the info, I was working on it last night, and tried to work it again this morning so as to not disturb my neighbors with all the loud banging! So far nothing though. I had already just ripped the boot off and tried to get a pry bar and a mini sledge to make it work, but nothing. Grabbed the vice grips and tried that way, all I got from that was tear the head apart. I sprayed PB blaster in as best I could and tried again and let it soak over night but nothing is budging it. I even just removed the whole unit itself and tried taking the sledge directly to the pin in hopes of jarring it loose or breaking the contact but I didn't get anywhere there either. I guess sometime this week i'll take it up to the shop on base and see if I can borrow there torch and heat it up. Might be able to work it out that way. Otherwise I guess I'll just have to replace that caliper.
"Otherwise I guess I'll just have to replace that caliper."
It's not the caliper you would have to replace. It's the Torque Plate (caliper mounting bracket), pin and rubber boot. The caliper is mounted to the bracket with 2 14MM headed bolts. Then the caliper mounting bracket is bolted to the car with the 2 17MM headed bolts. Take the caliper off first and put it aside. I use a bent piece of coat hanger or some wire to tie the caliper up around the coil spring to keep it out of the way, and keep it from hanging from the rubber brake hose. Then remove the Torque Plate from the car.
Have you been holding the torque plate in a vice while working on it? I would also try laying the torque plate down on it's side overnight with the PB Blaster sprayed liberally on the pin, so the PB Blaster may work it's way down the pin and into the hole. The torch is a good idea but don't overdo it; you don't want to take the temper out of the torque plate. Heat it just a little at a time and then try first to rotate the pin. Once you get it rotating, you should be able to work it out.
If you still can't get the pin out, you could take the torque plate to a bone yard and try to match it up to one on a car there. You may even find one with 2 pins in it that move in and out freely. That shouldn't cost much. You could even see how much a new one costs from Toyota, but that would be a last resort.
Well I asked a buddy of mine to come over yesterday with his torch, and after about an hour we got the pin out. It was just a mess, pin was rusted tight and pretty much gone. Picked up some new pins and got everything going again, only to find out that during all of this, the caliper mounting bracket got twisted just slightly out of shape. Just enough that when it was installed back on the mounts it pinched the rotor at the tip of the outter edge, thusly now allowing it to turn. After checking around with the local parts stores to find no one had one in stock we ran to the local pick N pull on our lunch break and the first camry I came across had the bracket laying on the ground all set to go! Picked it up for 12 bucks and am about to go install it now that I'm home from work.
Well I asked a buddy of mine to come over yesterday with his torch, and after about an hour we got the pin out. It was just a mess, pin was rusted tight and pretty much gone. Picked up some new pins and got everything going again, only to find out that during all of this, the caliper mounting bracket got twisted just slightly out of shape. Just enough that when it was installed back on the mounts it pinched the rotor at the tip of the outter edge, thusly now allowing it to turn. After checking around with the local parts stores to find no one had one in stock we ran to the local pick N pull on our lunch break and the first camry I came across had the bracket laying on the ground all set to go! Picked it up for 12 bucks and am about to go install it now that I'm home from work.
That sounds good. It was either the sledge hammer or too much torch that did in the bracket. Glad you found it for only $12. Glad also that you got a new one. You would never have been able to straighten the old one properly. If it's bent justly slightly, the caliper will not seat properly and the pads will be on some funky angle to the rotor and will wear out quickly. Remember, when putting it all back together, the 2 pins are different.
So I went to install the "used" bracket yesterday only to find out that it was the 4 cyl model I suppose. I didn't realize just how much the two brackets look alike! But sure enough as soon as I went to put in on the car, I could not attach it due to the larger diameter of the 6cyl rotor. So I ran back to the Pick N pull today to try and switch it out with the right one. But I could only find 4 gen 3's. All of which did not have the right size bracket. I was hoping maybe someone knows if the bracket's for the 1MZ 95 cross reference with any other vehicles IE: Corolla, Celica. If so please let me know. I ordered a new bracket today from Advanced but I won't have it till next Monday. If anyone happens to know this information please let me know so I can run back and get that part!
On that note...if anyone here just happens to have this bracket and they no longer need it because they sucumb to the camry curse, If I could buy it off of you I'd greatly appreicate it.
Last edited by Troyfrezze; 11-16-2005 at 05:55 PM.
Did you take the bracket with you to the pick-n-pull? I would just try to match it up with another car. The generation 4 cars might use the same bracket on the 6 cylinder models. Maybe even a generation 2. Did you check any of them? If you have the bracket with you, you could just match it up or look for some numbers marked on the brackets and match it up that way. You may even try calling a dealership parts department and ask them what brackets are the same or call Advanced Auto and ask them. Another way is to get on-line with some auto parts website and get the part number they use for the bracklet on your car. Then try to find the part number for the bracket used on a generation 2 or 4. If they are the same you have your answer.
Good luck in your search for the part. I know how frustrating it can be when you feel you are this close to solving your problem and then have to wait like this.
Mike
I just checked Autozone's website and according to them the bracket for the generation 3 and generation 4 are not the same. They don't show anything for the generation 2 so I can't comment on that.
Mike
Last edited by Mike Gerber; 11-17-2005 at 12:46 PM.
Yea, the first time I went I left the bracket at home and just went looking for the same car. When I went back I went with the old bracket but they only had the one 95 camry, and about 4 other 92 and 94 Camry's. Everything else was Gen 2 cams, or early 90's Celicas. Several corrollas of diferent years, but from what I could see the Corolla's had some really skinny brackets, and I didn't see much on the celicas. I was doing this on my lunch break from a seminar so I didn't have all day to shop around. There are a few other pick n pulls in town so I figure I'll take a look at them Saturday some time. Parts not supposed to be here till Monday so I've got nothing better to do anyways.
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Brake Vibration/brake pedal droping *Caliper Bracket cross reference*
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