Steering rack boots torn into two pieces after a firestone alignment, need input

[ruoknow]

Hey guys/gals,
I just replaced my rack and pinion for my 96 avy. After installation, I took it to firestone and got a lifetime alignment. After driving it for several days, I checked the condition of my rack and pinion and found one of the boots was broken and the other one was twisted like hell. I replaced the broken one yesterday. When I was removing the tie rod end, I counted the threads, which is 12-13 turns. I remember it was 15 turns for each end before the alignment. After replacing the broken one, I reorganized the twisted one and found there is only 14 turns there.
Apparently the way the firestone guy doing alignment is just looses the lock nuts and adjusts the tie rods by turning it into proper toe-in specifications. They did that without removing the clips on the smaller ends of the rack boots. The results are: the one they rotated 3 turns was broken and the other one they rotated one turn is serious twisted.
Anyone can confirm that this is the standard procedure in doing alignment?
Or have they done something wrong?

[Cyorke]

For adjsuting the toe on a car the only way to adjsut is to rotate the tie rods. As for the boots yeah it would make more sense to take the clamps off so as not to twist the boots and risk damaging them. WHy not go back to them to have htem fix the boot if they scrweeed it up.

[ruoknow]

Thanks Cyorke for your quick response.

I will not believe in these firestone guys anymore. Actually I am quite upset about that.
How can one do these simple things without basic responsibility.
I have already fixed it by myself.

[ruoknow]

just called them.
They told me that they do aligment by adjusting the sleeves not by rotating the tie rods. They don't think the boots were twisted during the process of alignment.
is that true?

[Cyorke]

Well I can say I am guilty of doing the same thing. I used to be a auto tech and worked for Toyota for a couple of years. IN most cases I did not remove the clamps on the boot. Also most of the time there isnt really a reason to unless the tie rods or rack has been replaced and you know that you are going to have to rotate the tie rod a pretty good amount. Even when you do have to ratate it several turns it usually, in my experience, turns fairly easy without twisting the boots.

[Cyorke]

http://autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker...3d8013f766.jsp

http://autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker...3d8016609e.jsp


well the only problem with them saying that is the only sleeves that are on the steering would be on the tie rod end itself. To be able to tunr that sleeve you would have to disassemble the tie rod from the hub assmebly and turn it then reinstall to check the alignment then repeat the process until you get it correct. This would be avery long process when all you ahve to do is turn the inner tie rod to get the setting that you need. Unless the inner tie rod, the long shaft that actually comes out of the rack, is in two pieces with a sleeve in the middle. This would be the same setup that is used on the rear of toyotas to adjsut the toe setting. I hope that makes sense. I provided a link to autozone.com and you can probably see waht I am talking about. I ahve never seen a Toyota rack with a two piece inner tie rod on the front.The first link is the front setup and the second one is the rear. In the on of the rear you can click on the picture and see what I am talking about. The links that are marked with the number 3 are the ones used to adjsut the toe setting in the rear. The one onthe left hand side is clearer than the other and the arrow is actually pointing to the sleeve I was referring to. IF your front has a setup similar to this then what they said would make sense otherwise I am confused as to waht they are talking about.

[ruoknow]

Finally, they agreed that they made a mistake, and they apologized for that. They were willing to pay the part (one boot) and my labor. I've got 60 bucks back.

Thanks Cyorke, you are so helpful!

[Cyorke]

GOod to hear I am glad you got it worked out. Did you go back to them with the information I gave and they started back pedaling or something. How did you get them to admit they were wrong.

[ruoknow]

At the beginning, of course, they didn't think they did something wrong. We argued a little bit. The manager insisted that they don't need to rotate the tie rod while they doing the alignment. He even showed me the picture of the steerring system and where is the sleeve they used to adjust (BUT he pointed to the locking nuts). Then I used the knowledge you showed me this morning. He still insisted.
I said "since i have got a lifetime alignment from you and I reinstalled the boot, so i am a little out of alignment again. " "why don't you do an alignment in front of me"
He said "fine" "now we are busy, why don't you come back an hour later or you can leave you car here"
I said "I will be back in an hour", then i drive away.
After 5 minutes drive, my cell rang, he said "we apologize......."
that's the story.

[Cyorke]

well good I am glad I could be of some assistance with that then. Just glad you go it worked out. Most of the time the managers at those places ahve never even turned a wrench and have no idea what they are talking about. Not always but a lot of times. I have worked for a couple of different Firestones and then some of dealers I have worked at the Service managers have never gotten their hands dirty working on cars.

[ShawnM]

I do alignments all the time and never remove the boot clamp. 99% of the time it turns with no problems. If the rubber on the boot is sticking to the inner tie rod, I just spray it with a little lube and that usually takes care of it. The guy would have to be a complee moron to not notice that hes destroying the boot. Good to hear you got it taken care of though.