STRANGE Camry Brake Problem, Plz help!!! - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

Tarzan · 12-26-2005, 08:08 PM

There is a really strange brake problem on my car guys. I've come here for advice.

My Car:

3rd Gen. 1994 Camry Coupe, I4 Automatic.

Situation:

I took my car into Tire Kingdom last Wednesday for brake problems. Basically it was loosing pedal pressure.

This is what they did:

Replaced front rotors, installed ceramic brake pads, redid rear drum brakes, done.

Problem:

They were done but when they tried to bleed the brake fluids, the dirverside rear drum brake line wouldn't bleed. And there was no brake pressure.

Solutions:

They thought it was a bad master cylinder so they replaced it. Didn't work. They thought there was a leak in the brake line, no leak. They thought there was a blockage in the break line. NO.

So now my car is sitting there for 4 days now. I don't think they are lying to me. 3 different mechanics have worked on it to no avail. One guy even quit because he got so fustrated.

ANYONE, please comment or make suggestions. Me and Tire Kingdom are at a loss. I need my car back.

Thanks in advance.

V6LE_CAMRY · 12-26-2005, 08:16 PM

thats just weird. maybe the like is broken in a place that is hidden and something is catching the fluid. were you loosing any fluid when you had the original brake booster? maybe the problem is in that rear brake.

Gary_602Z · 12-26-2005, 08:51 PM

Are they getting fluid out of the line before it goes into the wheel cylinder? If not they just have to work upstream on that side to find the problem. (Could be a bad proportioning valve). If they are getting fluid, it could be a bad wheel cylinder but I doubt because it should bleed out.
The guy that quit probably wasn't much of a mechanic because the good ones will figure it out come hell or high water!

Chevy's have had a problem with the rubber portion of the brake line coming apart (internally) causing problems, might want to look into that.

Gary

Tarzan · 12-27-2005, 12:38 PM

Thanks alot guys. I'll look into it. Anyone else have a similar problem happen to you or any ideas?

***ASG14*** · 12-27-2005, 05:31 PM

Vacumme line problem? ABS problem (doubtful though).

Is the fuil leaking out ANYWHERE? Have them flush the entire system, and use tracer die to see if there is a leak that they can not identify.

Tarzan · 12-29-2005, 01:09 PM

They've flushed the system and can't find leaks. Today a toyota mechanic is coming to inspect it.

Bump.

Reppinshadyvill · 12-29-2005, 01:20 PM

I've dealt with a couple of shitty brake problems but this seems interesting. Lets start from the beginning. You took the car in because you were losing brake pressure. (Usually fluid leaking past seals, air in system, bad master cylinder) After changing pads all around they tried to bleed the brakes. I'm assuming that they bled all other wheels and the driverside rear drum was dry/not releasing fluid.

Did they remove the actual steel line from the back of the drum to check for fluid? If they didn't it could be that there is a problem with your wheel cylinder. It is the thing that the steel cable actually connects to.( It is the thing that actually pushes the pads apart)

Cyorke · 12-29-2005, 01:48 PM

bad proportioning valve or maybe one of the lines is crushed from hitting something. I jsut went and looked at mine and onthe drivers side there is a plastic cover over the brake lines and fuel lines. right where the unibody frame rail ends it turns up and the cover stops. I have noticed that the cover on mine was out of place, looked like it had been mangled somehow. When looking I noticed that whoever had it before must have hit something and damaged the cover but also it looks like one of the fuel lines is damaged. Maybe something similar has happened to yours. There are four or five metal lines that run under the cover. I am assuming two are for the rear brakes and the other two are supply and return lines for the fuel system. Just trying to throw out some other ideas.

Now that you made me go out and look at mine I geuss I am going to ahve to buy a fuel line to fix mine. Luckily it is not completely crushed but definitely damaged. Guess I need to price that one out.

Tarzan · 12-29-2005, 08:15 PM

Today they called me and said that they are NOW pretty sure it is the proportioning valve. They are going to replace it and let me know tomorrow.

Quote:

bad proportioning valve or maybe one of the lines is crushed from hitting something. I jsut went and looked at mine and onthe drivers side there is a plastic cover over the brake lines and fuel lines. right where the unibody frame rail ends it turns up and the cover stops. I have noticed that the cover on mine was out of place, looked like it had been mangled somehow. When looking I noticed that whoever had it before must have hit something and damaged the cover but also it looks like one of the fuel lines is damaged. Maybe something similar has happened to yours. There are four or five metal lines that run under the cover. I am assuming two are for the rear brakes and the other two are supply and return lines for the fuel system. Just trying to throw out some other ideas.

That is exactly what they said, that I must have hit something. I remember driving over a pot hot with a huge dunk sound. Yes, there are 4 metal brake lines running under the car with a plastic covering over them. But they said mine are fine. Good luck on yours.

Quote:

Did they remove the actual steel line from the back of the drum to check for fluid? If they didn't it could be that there is a problem with your wheel cylinder. It is the thing that the steel cable actually connects to.( It is the thing that actually pushes the pads apart)

Yes, they've removed the steel lines from behind the drums. They've already tried 3 new mastercylinders so they don't think its that.

Anymore suggestions? I really appreciate the replys.

Tarzan · 12-30-2005, 09:03 PM

It was not the porportioning vavle. HELP

Bump

Dave's · 12-30-2005, 10:21 PM

Have they disassembled the rear driverside wheel cylinder? Could be it's rusted/jammed in such a way that it won't let fluid in and without being able to bleed the air this could possibly account for lack of brakes as the air in that line gets compressed. Remove all the parts from the cylinder, remove the bleed valve (or open it and run a wire thru it) and make sure all passages are clear. Pushing pedal should result in fluid running into cylinder. There are brake cylinder hones to clean up any rust in the cylinder. Good luck. Let us know.

DailyDriveCamry · 12-30-2005, 10:42 PM

I have the exact same car, a 94 2dr coupe 4cyl and had/have a very similar problem. My brakes were getting softer and softer until they would lose pressure when steadily applied and then I would have to pump them to get pressure again or the car would start to move with the pedal held down.

I replaced the rear shoes, front disc pads, front rotors (brembo), AND the master cylinder (with oem). The difference between our situations is that I was able to bleed out all four wheels just fine, so I guess I was really lucky. I just took it out on the road tonight and the brakes are now very strong, BUT the pedal is still very soft. I half to push the pedal down at least halfway before there is much of a response. To stop hard the pedal has to go down probably 80%-90% to the floor.

From what I have read I think the Power Brake Booster is likely the problem in my car, and possibly yours too for the soft pedal. It is my understanding that the Power Brake Booster is a big part of what creates the vacuum pressure that drives the fluid through the lines with force when the master cylinder piston pushes. So I think if it is bad the master cylinder can still push the fluid, but just lacks muscle without the Power Brake Booster.

Tarzan · 12-30-2005, 11:53 PM

Thanks for the additional suggestions. I suspect TireKingdom employ a bunch of retards, that or they are F ing with me. I'm towing my car to Toyota tomorrow.

Tarzan · 03-17-2006, 06:48 PM

Just an update on the brake problem maybe someone can benifit from. So I took my car to toyota and they fixed it in 3 hours.

The problem was that Tire Kingdom was using a generic master cylinder and toyota installed a real toyota one. Toyota says that the camry only takes real ones or it will F up.

Just and FYI if someone has the same prob as me. And thanks alot for all your help.

DailyDriveCamry · 03-17-2006, 07:58 PM

As an FYI the actual maker of the Toyota master brake cylinder is a company named AISIN out of Japan. I was able to find a reseller that could get it a lot cheaper than what Toyota was asking for theirs. In fact, when I took the original one off it was stamped AISIN and not Toyota as well and both were identical.
As a side note the main housing doesn't go bad, it's the plunger piston/spring inside it that goes bad. My local Toyota dealer could order a replacement plunger kit for about $65, which would make the master brake cylinder just like new. Of course I found this out AFTER I bought a replacement...