Front Suspension Noise?

[chasman]

Hello All,

We could use some assistance diagnosing a fairly loud front end noise (left side) that is typically only noticed when making a 90-degree turn (to the right - I don't recall the noise with left turns)

• while simultaneously encountering a speed-bump (such as in a parking garage)
• or a dip in the road surface.

Our 87 wagon has 187k miles and is still on the original struts. This noise has become progressively louder over time. There is no abnormal tire wear.

About 18 months ago our local Toyota dealer thought the car needed a new top strut mount and said that there was some play in the lower control arm.

About 12 months ago a different Toyota dealer said the car needed 4 new struts and did not diagnose any issues with the top strut mount or lower control arm.

In the last roughly 6 months, I've had our local independent mechanic check the car 2 or 3 times for this noise and they have not found any problems other than worn-out outer sway bar bushing which they replaced. I specifically asked them to check the top strut mount and lower control arm and didn't find any problems with either part.
At this point I'm

Most recently the CV boots (the right one cracked) and the left drive axle were replaced.

If the strut mount or struts are the issue, which brand is a step up from Genuine Toyota struts to minimize body roll without negatively affecting ride quality: Koni, Bilstein, or some other brand?

Thanks!!

[TypeRex187]

You can try KYB struts with INtrax springs combo, and to minimize the body roll slap on some sway bars... these are just the simple bolt ons that i can think of right now. good luck.

i have the similar problem with the tire wear, after replacing the struts it was fine.

[Bluesabre]

I haven't checked whether Tokico Blues are available for a Gen 2, but I put them on my Gen 4 a year ago today and they're fantastic. The noise you hear when driving over bumps sure seems like the strut mount, I had noises up front too. When I replaced the struts and springs, I also put in KYB mounts. Now it feels like I have a new car and by using the Eibach Pro Kit springs, lowering was minimal. (Those are progressive rate springs and the ride is great.)
A suspension upgrade is worth the money and you can do it yourself in a weekend. (Else, you pay about $600/axle at a Toyota dealer!)

[chasman]

Originally Posted by Bluesabre

I haven't checked whether Tokico Blues are available for a Gen 2, but I put them on my Gen 4 a year ago today and they're fantastic. The noise you hear when driving over bumps sure seems like the strut mount, I had noises up front too. When I replaced the struts and springs, I also put in KYB mounts. Now it feels like I have a new car and by using the Eibach Pro Kit springs, lowering was minimal. (Those are progressive rate springs and the ride is great.)
A suspension upgrade is worth the money and you can do it yourself in a weekend. (Else, you pay about $600/axle at a Toyota dealer!)

Thanks for the reply Bluesabre. Tokico Blues are available for a GEN 2 (part # HZ 3117 & 3118) as are KYB mounts. What made you select Tokico rather than KYB struts?

However, Eibach Pro Kit springs are NOT available for GEN 2. Should we use our 19-year old springs, new genuine Toyota springs, or a different brand of aftermarket springs? I think Intrax (Per EKam: not heat treated & harsher ride) may be the only aftermarket choice for Gen2.

Thanks again!

[Bluesabre]

Chasman - I went with Tokico Blues instead of KYB because I had read in several places that the Tokicos were excellent struts. I don't recall the specific sites or threads to cite for you, but I did do some research before I bought them. The KYB's would probably be okay too, better than stock, but I didn't find a lot of info on them.

As for springs, I would definately not use your old springs, but get some aftermarket springs. I think you're right, Intrax may be all that's available for the Gen 2.

Good Luck and Happy New Year!

[chasman]

Thanks Blouesabre!

Per EKam: Springs & Struts Guide
Since Intrax is not heat treated, sagging will occur over time - doesn't sound like a great choice. If I can't buy Eibach or Tokico springs to go with the Tokico struts, Toyota springs may be a better choice. Any other spring choices anyone?

Happy New Year!

[chasman]

Happy New Year Everyone,

We would appreciate some diagnostic assistance. We've taken our car to 3 different repair shops and received 3 different answers.

It certainly seems reasonable that our original 19-year old, 187,000 mile strut mounts and struts (even though they are not leaking) probably need to be replaced. However, will replacing these parts solve the front-end noise?

Thanks!

[te51levin]

Not to sound flippant, but if three local mechanics can't diagnose a noise, a succesful diagnosis over the internet is even less likely! Having said that, I would definately take a good hard look at strut mounts. Our dealership keeps them in stock for certain Camrys (due to popularity and the number of them on the road likely to need them, not because one gen or another is a failure-prone design). We replace them fairly often when we install new struts. I would suggest you replace them whether you replace the struts or not.

We also stock the outer sway bar mount bushings - the ones you've had replaced, right? I mean the ones in the lower control arms that the sway bar runs through. If we stock them, that means we sell them fairly often. Those are definately a leading cause of front end clunk and I don't think your dealership misdiagnosed so much as failed to completely cure the issue.

Personal experience: my Intrax springs did not sag over time. But they were lower than I would have preferred in front from the beginning. I jacked them up an inch with rubber spacers and they worked well. Note this was a non-Camry...just throwing that out there FWIW.

Further personal experience: if you are happy with the ride and handling, and the ride height is still within spec, the stock springs are fine. Springs do not lose their rate over time. They can sag, but will still have the same rate. (IIRC...)

Generally speaking, genuine Toyota parts are not bettered by the aftermarket in terms of quality-dependability-reliability. And it's fair to extend that to longevity. You got 186K out of your OEM struts - which, BTW, are probably made by either Tokico or KYB - I don't think you'd get better out of a typical aftermarket component. But if you're after improved handling, I'm with you, and I'd like to hear the response from people who do more with their gen2s than drive to community college and cruise the Dairy Queen. Tokico generally markets their product as somewhat sporty, while GR-2s are more along the lines of OEM replacement, with an emphasis on ride comfort. I suspect the Tokicos would be generally firmer and more repsonsive.

[ASG14]

187k and original struts? WOW! Same thing happened with my '92 Camry. Strut mount int he front broke. I'd say from what I have read, not experienced though, that Tokico's are best for lowering a car, and make for a slightly harsher ride, while the KYB's make for a mix between stocka nd Tokico's, and is stiff but still offers a comfortable ride.

www.TireRack.com is a good place to get them. Hope this helps.

[chasman]

Hello te51levin,

Thanks for the excellent reply!

"Not to sound flippant, but if three local mechanics can't diagnose a noise, a successful diagnosis over the internet is even less likely!"

No offense taken. Agreed, but how to proceed was our question?

"I would definitely take a good hard look at strut mounts." "I would suggest you replace them whether you replace the struts or not."

I suspect that if one replaces the strut mounts that from a labor cost perspective, it is probably wise to also replace the struts too - especially with 187k miles.

"I don't think your dealership misdiagnosed so much as failed to completely cure the issue." Yes, I think that is correct.

We have always been very pleased with genuine Toyota parts. They have consistently been high quality parts for the 20+ years we have been using them.

"But if you're after improved handling, I'm with you,...”

Yes, we would like improved handling. The 87 Camry wagon was a reliable family wagon. We would like more of a "sportswagon" in terms of handling.

"I suspect the Tokicos would be generally firmer and more responsive."
Sounds like a match for our interests.

As far as springs, Eibach or Tokico would probably be great. However, it appears they are not available for GEN 2. I guess we will stick with the stock springs unless there is some other truly comparable option to Eibach or Tokico springs?

Thanks again!

[te51levin]

It appears Whiteline (of Australia) offer front and rear anti-sway bars for the gen2. They list them as 4-cylinder specific. That shouldn't make any difference on the rear, and I am not 100% sure it does on the front. Unfortunately, they don't seem to offer anything in terms of springs or struts.

Though this won't affect body roll, I also highly recommend a performance alignment. It doesn't requier any trick parts, just a technician willing to align a car to you specs and not worry about what the computer says is correct. Alignment to stock specs produces a normal handling Camry - i.e. a plastic bag full of pudding. Aligning our old SV1x gen1 with as much negative camber (adjusted at the strut/knuckle interface) and as much caster (rotated the upper strut mounts) as possible, setting front toe slightly out and rear to zero (IIRC) didn't affect the ride or roll at all, but made sure that as much of the outside front tire's contact patch was flat against the road in a corner as possible. It made the car noticeably less prone to push in moderate to hard cornering. Some will argue that you will wear out tires if alignment is altered. FWD cars usually burn off the outside edge of the tire first; the steps I took minimized that effect and made the tires work and wear more evenly.

You can't turn a pig into a race car, but you can make a damn fast pig.

[chasman]

Thanks for all the great help everyone!

Any other comments on the following two choices?

#1 Tokico + Intrak (See EKam's comments: http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=15505)

Versus

#2 Tokico + (original or new) OEM Toyota springs

Thanks again!