3sgte

[Chancer]

Okay, this is gonna be a biggie, with some repeated information but I HAVE been reading, for months in fact, but unfortunately I know nothing about cars (slowly learning, mainly on making a R/T 49 VH Charger replica - it's an Aussie version and the Weber Carbies for it cost more than my Camry!).

I HAVE searched the forum for info etc., and have learned a lot but now the money is starting to roll in, and I have refined my questions to hopefully more specific straight-to-the-point variations.

Here goes. I have a 1994 I4 Camry, with a 5sfe (I think that's right?)

I want to basically turn it into a Super Camry.

I have to do a lot of crap to it, paint job, body kit, suspension overhaul, interior, lights, all the trimmings.

However, the first thing I want to do it up the power so it screams like a beast. Swapping it to a V6 is out of the question (I have a long term to have three 94 - 96 camrys, one a V6 like Tony's..., one the pumped 4, and one with a V8 in it... I've got a mate who dropped a 350 Chev donk into his but he is a genius compared to me and had to cut lots of stuff up and had a v6 engine bay to start work with.)

So, my theory was to drop a 3sgte into the Camry.

My main questions are...

1. The 3sgte is the Celica engine right, from the st185? It had something like 200HP stock whereas the Camry was sitting somewhere around 110? This would change with the different weights of the car? But I take it the 3sgte is still much beastilier.

2. So I found a Front Cut off a Celica. It's got a 3sGTE in it and its manual. My camry is an auto. The BASIC question I need to know is if I buy this front cut, how much more am I gonna need in terms of fabrication etc.? I think I remember reading once that all I need is a custom/different wiring loom which one of my more advanced mates could do.
Of course the plan involves switching it over to the Celica gearbox and well, pretty much everything else as well.

If the Celica is AWD will that affect the installation?

Will I need custom engine mounts and things like that? I read somewhere that I wouldn't, and I read somewhere else that I WOULD. So that's why I've come here with admittedly quite a few basic questions and hopefully a few of you can help me out.

I have read back through the threads but am very basic and have read (at least in my eyes) conflicting info. Step it back a bit and make it basic for little ol' me please!

I've got the money (I been saving and investing wisely for such a project for a long time!) and no brain right now so other reccomendations like what type of exhaust, etc. that anyone wants to throw at me please feel free. I promise to post lots of pics and vids if I get into it!

Thanks guys, sorry to be a complete and utter n00b.

[Chancer]

P.S.. Sorry if I sounded cocky/rich or anything... I most definitely am not! I just mean I have the money for THIS PROJECT so please, don't take the money into consideration when telling me what I can and can't do. I want to do it right, and want to do it well (well, if something costs $100,000 that's gonna be out of my price range but you get the drift! No cutting corners.)

[ECale3]

There are a few 3SGTE engine applications. The celica one (GT-Four i believe) has the highest power output IIRC. The 3sgte is also found in the MR2 turbo. Also the late gen 3SGTE's have nearly 260hp stock if i remember right.

The celica's AWD tranny would take a good bit of fabrication to fit since the camry is FWD, obviously the camry isn't designed with a rear differential in mind. Personally i'd try to find an E153 manual from a V6 Manual Camry/ Solara or, if you can't get that, do some custom work to make the E153 from the MR2 work (i believe that is possible but i'm not positive and am not thinking clearly).

IIRC for a MR2's 3SGTE to be installed in a camry you would need some custom motor mounts, dunno if that also applies to the GT-Four motor since its a front mounted motor.

good luck and hopefully someone with more practical experience in this matter will answer your remaining questions.

[Tommy]

you're looking at a good bit of custom work.

Tranny needs work, axels need work, motor mounts need work, complete custom wiring harness.

You can use either the celica or mr2 version of the GTE, best bet for transmission is the 5spd E153 from either a v6 camry or turbo mr2. the trick with the mr2 is that the linkage is on the opposite side. You cant use the AWD tranny, its been mentioned before that you could possibly make some sort of block off plate for the rear output, but why go through the hassle for something that hasnt been proven?

[Chancer]

Cool, thanks so far guys, that cleared up a lot... I remember reading somewhere someone claiming that you can pretty much drop a 3sGTE into the Camry no probs due to similar engine mounts... They were obviously mistaken or dribbling crap!

Back to the drawing board for a moment to emerge with a new plan...

[Icedman]

There's at least 4 versions of the 3S-GTE:
ST 165 (1st Gen GT-4), about 180 hp output.
ST 185 (2nd Gen GT-4), 204 hp
ST 185 (2nd Gen GT-4), Carlos Sainz LM Edition), around 240 hp
ST 205 (3rd Gen GT-4), Where there's 2 different ECUs, the Jap spec produces about 260 hp while the UK spec produces "only" around 240 hp.

Now while you might be struggling about the gearbox stuff, you _can_ mate the 3S-GTE to your current transmission, but be prepared to swap the transmission out due to the transmission not handling the power. And for the record, there has been a 4WD version of _all_ Camries since at least the 86-90 model (2nd gen). They just haven't been sold out of Japan.

And about the transmission of the AWD Celica, there is a switch to use either the forward wheels, all wheels or rear wheels on the transmission, but as far as I know, it's only for factory testing and the switch has a bolt/screw on it to prevent it from accidentally switching from the default AWD setting. IIRC, it affects the centre differential in ways I don't know much about.

There's an aussie Gen 2 which has been fitted with an ST205 3S-GTE of which a thread can be found here

[Chancer]

Cool, thanks for those stats mate.

I'm now on the lookout for a ST185 engine half cut (which I have found - 205's seem really rare, especially down under) and an e153 transmission then.

Unless anyone has any more info about switching the celica trans over to the front wheels and whether that will work well or not, or whether it's just some obscure gimmicky testy thing.

If anyone knows places I could look for parts, etc. like an E153 in Australia (like a car part site or something) please help this N00b out! I managed to find my half cut by searching import places and wreckers through Google but the E153/more specific parts are a little more elusive. (This is of course if I can't work out how to get the Celica trans to work.)

[terrastrife]

oh man youre in australia, you got it easy, bring your wallet to.. what state are you in i can try to reccoemend a shop.

oh and E153's go for around 500-800 (a lot for a used box) why? isnt it coming with the celica cut anyway?

[white90dx]

Originally Posted by terrastrife

oh and E153's go for around 500-800 (a lot for a used box) why? isnt it coming with the celica cut anyway?

A celica clip will come with an AWD E154 transmission... which doesn't doesn't work with only two axles attached (at least, not for very long!!).

It CAN be converted to FWD only (essentially an E153), but you need a number for parts (new diff, diff cover, bolts/nuts, seals, speedo drive, c-clip...). Along with a full dis-assembly and assembly to replace the diff.

-Charlie

[Camryamnesty]

you will need to spend a couple extra hundred dollars and find yourself a tranny, one place to look would be junkyards, and ebay, ebay will be your friend if your its friend. first off you would want to look for the v6 manual transmission, if no luck on that, just look for a 3sgte transmission, non awd of course, definately replace clutch flywheel and bolts.

[terrastrife]

Originally Posted by white90dx

A celica clip will come with an AWD E154 transmission... which doesn't doesn't work with only two axles attached (at least, not for very long!!).

It CAN be converted to FWD only (essentially an E153), but you need a number for parts (new diff, diff cover, bolts/nuts, seals, speedo drive, c-clip...). Along with a full dis-assembly and assembly to replace the diff.

-Charlie

the gt4/awd boxes get used a air bit in australia for fwd only systems because w have a serious LACK of manual v6 camry boxes here (pretty much only the gen 5's are becoming common in manuals, due to the bodys more sporty lines).

www.toymods.org.au

im pretty sure 2 or 3 guys have awd boxes in their gen2/3's.

[internetautomar]

will the V6 slushbox also bolt up?

Not every one wants a manual

[terrastrife]

bolt up? probably, will the insides connect together is another question altogether.

[BlueFusion6851]

So... why don't you use a V6 in your camry. No custom anything, and you can go the route of an All-Motor application and make a screamin' V6 no prob. I know I'm being the devils advocate... but. Just some food for thought.

[white90dx]

Originally Posted by internetautomar

will the V6 slushbox also bolt up?

Not every one wants a manual

It most definitely bolts up.

How do you propose to control it? No (non-Caldina) 3s-gte cars ever came with auto trannies.

Bottom line - if you want performance go with a manual (the exception being hard-core drag racers...)

-Charlie