Weird request for 2vz guys - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

lexusmech · 02-04-2006, 02:03 PM

Hi, I've got a manual V6 in my ES250. I currently have a california spec computer and was wondering if someone has a non CA spec computer laying around, or could swap with me just to see if there are any programming differences. I can pic one up for $50 but I have no idea if I will see any change. I know I've waisted more on other crap which is why i'm getting tired of the waisting.

I guess what I'm really wondering is the "lull" that exsists from idle to about 3500 rpm. It's just weird because it's like there's just very medicore power untill then, and at 3500 rpm the engine just totally wakes up. I'm wondering if that lower band was engineered for just cruising around and if you needed the power the higher band was there for when you needed it....? Does anyone have any input?

One thing I know for sure is the CA ecu has a connection for an EGR temp sensor, but externally thats the only thing I can come up with. When my car was sold in 1990, there was a lot going on with CA, smog, EPA, etc etc, so I'm wondering if maybe I could gain to get a different ecu?

TBayToyotaBoy · 02-04-2006, 10:08 PM

I don't think you'll gain too much by swapping the ECU, but for $50 it might be worth a try. I know that when Cali cars get imported to Canada, most mechanics shrug their shoulders when they see all the extra emissions piping.

As for the power band, you're not experiencing anything out of the ordinary. My 5-speed 2VZ has the same characteristics: mediochre power from 1000-3500rpm (or if the engine's running hot, more like 3750rpm) and then a torque-y power band extending up to around red-line. These cars are heavy, and the 2VZ's weren't engineered for speed. Unfortunately we have an engine that won't produce low-end hp without a LOT of work.

Sorry, hope this helps though.

JetspeedCamry · 02-04-2006, 10:52 PM

Yeah mine does this too. Its got great torque from idle to around 3500-4000, but not too muich power. Pulls out of corner great at low RPM. After 4000 of course, its all power to redline! So i don't think its just your CA spec one, its all of them.

TBayToyotaBoy · 02-04-2006, 11:21 PM

I'd say that's a consensus! Australia, The US, and Canada all have the same power band...I wonder how the Jap-spec 2VZ's performed?!?!?!

JetspeedCamry · 02-05-2006, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TBayToyotaBoy

I'd say that's a consensus! Australia, The US, and Canada all have the same power band...I wonder how the Jap-spec 2VZ's performed?!?!?!

My model is a "jap sepc" (you should say JDM)...
Australia didn't make 2VZ's...all imported here from Japan.

lexusmech · 02-05-2006, 10:58 AM

I really think the ign time and the ACIS are creating this lag on early powerband. And since Jetspeed already has a piggyback which already is modding the ign. I think we can rule that out.

The ACIS is controled by a VSV type switching valve. Basicly the valve is getting very fast DC pulses which controls how much vacuum is being let through to open the ACIS diaphram. This is where I'm going to try and focus to see if I can make a change....maybe.

EDIT: Ok I can't believe I didn't see this before, yes it's definitly the ACIS. I started reading more on the 3vz motor and it goes into more detail than the 2vz manual. Basicly the ecu turns on the vsv for the ACIS at 3900 RPM. Something about positive and negative pulses in the engine and how they affect upper and lower rpm. Whats interesting is how there is no inbetween. It's on and off.

Another note I found interesting on the fuel injection timing. There are only 3 injection timing cycles for 6 cylinders. Basicly one signal is sent to two consecutive injectors. So the fuel actually sits around for about 140 degrees before the actual intake stroke.

You know, I've been thinking about this before but now I really want to try it. I want to swap in a 3vz ECU. The main thing I would have to add is new wires for the fuel injectors. The 3vz has a much better fuel map, same distributor, same MAF, same idle control.

terrastrife · 02-05-2006, 11:34 AM

just get the acis to activate on intake vacuum, Tee into one of the lines on the top of the thrittle body, by the time it opens, it will be around the 2300RPM mark which is still earlier then when the VSV switches.

JetspeedCamry · 02-05-2006, 02:39 PM

And if we did get the ACIS to open at 2300RPM, what effect would that have on the powerband? Would there a be a lag?
Yeah i noticed too that only 3 njector signals feed all 6. Not as precise as you'd like. I assume the 3VZ ecu feeds all injectors via single wire? Thats a nice improvement if it does.

terrastrife · 02-05-2006, 03:09 PM

yeah but the 3vz also has the same lack of power under 4000rpm as well =)

just because the bands flat doesnt mean its fast, lol

terrastrife · 02-06-2006, 01:32 AM

Toysrme257th: For the EGR, throw the equipment away, the 2vz-fe is not equipped with an EGR sensor. if CA vehicles are, shove a 10k ohm resistor in the sensor's connector & that will satisfy most OBD-I Toyota ECU's.

The 2vz-fe ECU is not sequential injection. It fires in 3 groups of 2 injectors. This really isn't doing anything but consting like a MPG. AFA power, it isn't costing anything. There is more than enough time to inject all of the fuel, even at WOT.
The only time this is going to hurt someone, is when you're trying to turbo using the stock ECU, past where it can be made to safely fuel. (about 220bhp)

The 3vz-fe ECU is not going to work with any of the 2vz-fe hardware. You will need all the main sensor equipment from the 3vz-fe. AFM, TPS, Distributor, ignition coil setup. Install knock sensors (If not equipped). Add 1-wire lambda sensors.
etc
You also wouldn't want the 3vz-fe's ECU. 92-93 are tuned excessively rich, with too little timing. If a stock 3vz-fe has too much fuel to begin with, a 2vz-fe will be in horrible shape.

AFA the ACIS

Fix the valve so it's shut all the time, or shuts instantly with throttle. That can be achived by any number of ways. Just make sure to get rid of the vacuum equipment & make sure that you do not introduce vacuum leaks.

In a nutshell, what happens is this:

lexusmech · 02-08-2006, 12:37 AM

I highly beg to differ with with toysrme, on the 3vz ecu on the 2vz motor. Considering I've read the factory manual on engine operation of both motors, have both pinouts of both ecu's, and have visually seen both motors up close, I don't see why they wouldn't work.

You would have to run extra wires for the other three injectors, and feed both knock sense wires with the one actual knock sensor. As for the 1 wire lambda....what the hell is that? All of the signals injector and ign. signals are feed from the distributor. As for running rich, I'm sure thats what O2 sensors are for...Hm? I'm sure the computer can compensate for 15%.

While I realize toysrme is very knowledgeable, I think sometimes he "knows too much" if you catch my drift. For instance he was telling me how easy a turbo would be to add on my 2 vz would be, then I asked him if he knew anyone I could talk to thats already done it, he said no.....

Toysrme · 01-29-2007, 10:02 PM

And I would like to add for the record (Since I was reminded of this a minute ago on yahoo, by someone else asking abot a 2vz-fe turbo.)
This guy got on yahoo and specifically asked me what the most COST EFFECTIVE/EASYEST way to make big power on a 2vz-fe WOULD be, and he wasn't willing to run n2o.

The dude wasted 3 hours of my time asking me all kinds of damned questions, then comes on here with that bullshit & acts like I was shoving the shit down his neck. What a complete asshole...

lexusmech · 01-30-2007, 09:15 AM

Still mad a year later? And if it was 3 hours, it was because either yahoo IM was slow or his replies were delayed (i.e. he was chatting with someone else or he would just come back to his computer between doing something else).

I'm sure I didn't ask the novice question of "big power for cheap" question (I am a professional mechanic). I already know nos is first, then a turbo. I know that adding dumb stuff like filters and mufflers isn't going to make big power. What I was trying to figure out is whether or not you had custom installed a turbo on a non turbo engine. It's one thing to talk about motors already engineered that way, but you make it sound like I can just bolt one on and the motor will just take it.

Don't you think it would suck to take advice off the internet, do the modifications to physically install a turbo, only to find out the ecu can't take it. Or you have to crank the boost so far down, the power gain isn't worth all the headache. Then I would either have to go back to normal or go through the headache of installing a custom ecu and then tuning? I guess my internal red flag is that you're suggesting I put a turbo off only one bank of a V6. I'm not an engineer, but something about that doesn't seem right though in theory it possibly could work. This red flag makes me skeptical of any advice you're trying to give me.

WVcamry3sfe · 01-31-2007, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lexusmech

I'm sure I didn't ask the novice question of "big power for cheap" question (I am a professional mechanic).

your asking about the ECU here kind of makes me doubt you're being ^^^ a professional mechanic. or at least a good one at that.

why argue about this?

from what I understand of the 2vzfe though, you probably can get away with just slapping on a turbo and running 5psi of boost.

one thing for sure is the camry sure as hell aint gonna run like a supra ever.

Toysrme · 01-31-2007, 03:04 PM

I think you're a dick for wasting hours of my time, then coming on here & talking shit. Seems like that shoe fits you pretty well to me...
On a side note if you were a trained mechanic. You wouldn't need to ask so many questions about the thing, or it's wiring.

I'll dig you a hole you can't get back out of real fast the more you talk. So... Stop talking. Just gunna make it worse.