What things tend to go wrong with turbo setups added to factory non-turbo engines?

[kenny1773]

I am fairly certain I am going to be coming into some extra cash this summer, this has me a little more interested in a Turbo kit for my Gen 5.5 I-4 Camry SE.

Like what this thread referred to http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/t117550.html

I still have several concerns

1. Reliability is the main one. The reason I bought a Camry is I can depend on it to get me to work everyday and not cost me an arm+leg in repairs throughout it's life or leave me stranded, etc, etc.

I know adding a turbo will increase heat, stress, and engine wear. I am GOING TO ASSUME the Camry can handle this and it will not reduce my short term (100k mile) reliablility.

What are other issues that could go wrong? What could 'blow' that would leave me stranded n the roadside like a ford owner?

2. What about gas mileage? Part of the reason I bought the I-4 is city drving MPG. My daikly communte is stop and go traffic that NEVER goes about 20mph. I completely understand that more power = less MPG and if I am flooring it with a turbo my mileage will drop, but what about in tight commuter traffic like I will be in most of the time where I am idle to 2000 rpms at most and back to stop?

I have seen the TRD super charged toyota V6 engines run 100k + miles without ANY problems at all, a couple of people I work with have them and drive them fairly hard. Could I expect similar with say a ZPI turbo?

I use mobil I oil and change it every 5k on the dot. I would have no issues with dropping the OCI to 3000 miles on the dot with adding the turbo. So failure due to insuffcient maint is not a concern.

[white3ch0c0late]

Well, I can't answer most of your questions since I've never turbo'd a car (yet..). But I can give you some advice that Allen (UfoZ) gave me that I completely agree with: don't go into uncharted waters with a turbo unless you've got another daily driver around.

Originally Posted by kenny1773

I have seen the TRD super charged toyota V6 engines run 100k + miles without ANY problems at all, a couple of people I work with have them and drive them fairly hard. Could I expect similar with say a ZPI turbo?

Turbo's and superchargers work differently. Turbo's require a lot more maintenance than a supercharger. A supercharger is belt-driven, and also uses up less gas than a turbo would. A turbo would definitely depreciate your engine faster than a supercharger.

[RedPhoenix]

Well you bought a car thats supposed to be reliable and get good mpg.. not be fast

but


1. adding any power adders will change the reliability. for one, its a turbo, so a great tune and non cheap parts, no shortcuts, will birng your reliability back. most things that go wrong are bad tuning = dead motor or shortcuts taken on the installation (cheap hoses, no clamps etc)

2. well when your not boosting (aka traffic jams and crawling traffic or just cruising at normal speeds your mpg should be near/same as it was before. when you boost, more air, more fuel, thats when you loose mpg



white3ch0c0late - i think the difference between tuubo and sc being reliable and not reliable... is one of those things where its a personal choice and such. with a reliable turbo setup its the same as a reliable sc kit. i dont see how a sc would use less gas though, both add air and use more fuel in almost the same manner.

dont know why its in italics! lol

[seanr56]

If you purchased this car brand new then why didn't you get a V6? The 4 cylinder is extremely boring to drive and lacks power. Didn't you test drive it before you bought it? I consider my 190 hp 3.0L V6 to be adequate but not anywhere near powerful. It would have been far wiser to spend a little extra up front to get the 210hp 3.3L V6. Then you would not have to ask these questions and you would get a car designed to properly handle what is under the hood.

[white3ch0c0late]

Originally Posted by RedPhoenix

white3ch0c0late - i think the difference between tuubo and sc being reliable and not reliable... is one of those things where its a personal choice and such. with a reliable turbo setup its the same as a reliable sc kit. i dont see how a sc would use less gas though, both add air and use more fuel in almost the same manner.

dont know why its in italics! lol

Right, I'm sure that there are reliable turbo setups. But I'm sure that its easier to make an s/c more reliable than it is for a turbo. But anyway, as far as the gas milage thing, I don't remember who told me that... I think it was either Allen or Justin... or it could have been Milt... I don't remember. But someone that was force induced told me that.

Originally Posted by seanr56

If you purchased this car brand new then why didn't you get a V6? The 4 cylinder is extremely boring to drive and lacks power. Didn't you test drive it before you bought it? I consider my 190 hp 3.0L V6 to be adequate but not anywhere near powerful. It would bave been far wiser to spend a little extra up front to get the 210hp 3.3L V6. Then you would not have to ask these questions and you would get a car designed to properly handle what is under the hood.

Wow, congratulations. You've just insulted about 70% of TN. If you actually read the entire original post, you would see that he actually posts his reasons for buying a 4cyl. On the side of that, a 4cyl Camry is MUCH easier to force induce than a V6... why? Because of the amount of room under the hood. "Properly handle what is under the hood?" My 4cyl handles just fine, thanks. 30hp between the two engines isn't that big of a difference, let me tell you.

[Luckynumber5]

^ no... Turbochargers generally require less maintenance and will last longer than a supercharger, a supercharger is belt driven, that is direct contact on the belt which will wear, the pulley has a good bit of tension being put on it so after a while the bearings in the snout will wear out and you need a rebuild, the rotors will end up with wear, and a supercharger has to have its own oil that needs to be changed after a while. A turbo can go a lot longer without the need for serious maintenance and by the time it does need it you can replace the unit for a little more than a rebuilt supercharger

[seanr56]

Last time I checked, the 4 bangers produce 160hp and 163lb.-ft. of torque and the 3.3L V6 produces 210hp and 220lb.-ft. of torque. 50hp (not 30hp) absolutely does make a difference and so does and extra 57lb.-ft. of torque. Toyota puts 17 inch rims, stiffest suspension and thickest stabilizer bars on the SE V6 along with 4 wheel disc brakes. I am not sure if the suspension and brake setup is identical on the 4 banger SE but I suspect that it is not. I bet it has rear drum brakes. Why buy a slow 4 banger if you are planning to make it faster? Just buy the V6 and save yourself the trouble. Besides, if he is planning to add a turbo, this will definitely hurt his gas mileage during his daily commute to work because he says that it is mostly stop and go traffic. Oh, and FYI, 60% of Camry's are 4 bangers. This is because they are primarily driven by grocery getting soccer moms. These are truly boring cars which is why I was annoyed that my company gave me one. Driving a Carmy sucks but I can't justify spending 30K-40K to purchase my own car that I will hardly ever drive.

[white3ch0c0late]

Originally Posted by seanr56

Last time I checked, the 4 bangers produce 160hp and 163lb.-ft. of torque and the 3.3L V6 produces 210hp and 220lb.-ft. of torque. 50hp (not 30hp) absolutely does make a difference and so does and extra 57lb.-ft. of torque. Toyota puts 17 inch rims, stiffest suspension and thickest stabilizer bars on the SE V6 along with 4 wheel disc brakes. I am not sure if the suspension and brake setup is identical on the 4 banger SE but I suspect that it is not. I bet it has rear drum brakes. Why buy a slow 4 banger if you are planning to make it faster? Just buy the V6 and save yourself the trouble. Besides, if he is planning to add a turbo, this will definitely hurt his gas mileage during his daily commute to work because he says that it is mostly stop and go traffic. Oh, and FYI, 60% of Camry's are 4 bangers. This is because they are primarily driven by grocery getting soccer moms. These are truly boring cars which is why I was annoyed that my company gave me one. Driving a Carmy sucks but I can't justify spending 30K-40K to purchase my own car that I will hardly ever drive.

Um... ok, I was referring to the 3.0L, not the 3.3L. I'm well aware of how much the 3.3L puts out considering I own an RX330. Why buy a 4banger with plans to make it faster? Because its a HOBBY. I've been driving my 4banger for a long time now, and believe me, I've never had any lack of torque or horsepower when I needed it.

If driving a "Carmy" sucks so much, then what are you doing here, then?

[white3ch0c0late]

Originally Posted by Luckynumber5

^ no... Turbochargers generally require less maintenance and will last longer than a supercharger, a supercharger is belt driven, that is direct contact on the belt which will wear, the pulley has a good bit of tension being put on it so after a while the bearings in the snout will wear out and you need a rebuild, the rotors will end up with wear, and a supercharger has to have its own oil that needs to be changed after a while. A turbo can go a lot longer without the need for serious maintenance and by the time it does need it you can replace the unit for a little more than a rebuilt supercharger

Umm... you're quite mistaken. Ask anyone thats done any kind of forced induction, and they'll tell you what I told you.

[kenny1773]

Originally Posted by seanr56

If you purchased this car brand new then why didn't you get a V6? The 4 cylinder is extremely boring to drive and lacks power. Didn't you test drive it before you bought it? I consider my 190 hp 3.0L V6 to be adequate but not anywhere near powerful. It would have been far wiser to spend a little extra up front to get the 210hp 3.3L V6. Then you would not have to ask these questions and you would get a car designed to properly handle what is under the hood.

Thanks for adding nothing to the questions at hand.

I have a 1200CC motorcycle for when I want to go fast, I would even take on Tony the Tiger with it

I actually like the 4 banger, I bought it for the gas mileage, IT IS A COMMUTER CAR. I am toying in my mind with the idea of putting a turbo in it just to play around with.

I can always ride the motorcycle if the carmy goes down, but I regularly take 600-800 mile trips in this car and my concern is to be stranded in the middle of nowhere because my stupid ass had to play around with perfection and put a turbo in it

[Luckynumber5]

Id be happy if my company gave me a Toyota anything to drive =/

[seanr56]

Anyway, I just did a Google search on turbocharger vs supercharger and read a pair of articles on the subject. It is a complicated issue and in the ultimate choice will likely be one of personal taste. Various manufacturers produce either or both types of systems depending on the application. Superchargers are easier to install but tend to be more expensive. Superchargers also provide better low end power. Superchargers are used exclusively in acceleration racing , because the turbo lag can't be tolerated. Turbochargers are smaller and requrie less space in the engine bay. A Turbocharger produces more power at low RPM , because a well-selected Turbocharger produces the maximum boost between 2000 to 2500 RPM, when the waste gate starts to open. In the latest Turbocharger design, the turbo fan became smaller, the waste gate bigger, and the turbo speed higher.

Good luck

[seanr56]

Oh, I originally came to this forum seeking information on how to make changes to some things like getting rid of the seatbelt chime when I place my laptop on the passenger seat.

[kenny1773]

Originally Posted by seanr56

Last time I checked, the 4 bangers produce 160hp and 163lb.-ft. of torque and the 3.3L V6 produces 210hp and 220lb.-ft. of torque. 50hp (not 30hp) absolutely does make a difference and so does and extra 57lb.-ft. of torque. Toyota puts 17 inch rims, stiffest suspension and thickest stabilizer bars on the SE V6 along with 4 wheel disc brakes. I am not sure if the suspension and brake setup is identical on the 4 banger SE but I suspect that it is not. I bet it has rear drum brakes. Why buy a slow 4 banger if you are planning to make it faster? Just buy the V6 and save yourself the trouble. Besides, if he is planning to add a turbo, this will definitely hurt his gas mileage during his daily commute to work because he says that it is mostly stop and go traffic. Oh, and FYI, 60% of Camry's are 4 bangers. This is because they are primarily driven by grocery getting soccer moms. These are truly boring cars which is why I was annoyed that my company gave me one. Driving a Carmy sucks but I can't justify spending 30K-40K to purchase my own car that I will hardly ever drive.

and the 3.3 V6 is not even fast. If I wanted fast I would have bought a Maxmia 3.5.

I bought the car for gas mileage and reliability and price. I *NEVER* intended to make it go fast, reading this site has put that thought in my mind A 210hp V6 can get to 20mph about as fast as a 160hp 4 cylinder can. That is 90% of my driving.

My car is now over a year old and I found out I am going to be coming into about $10k in a nice lump sum check in a couple of months. I like the car and I really don't want to trade it in for something else. I don't like the 2007 Camry interrior, it is not as comfortable to me as the 2005 (I am 6'5" and my legs don't fit right in the 2007 as I found out at the most recent auto show)

I am no where near ready to do this yet, just thinking out loud and trying to determine how much I am going to negate the original factors that steered me to buy this car in the first place.

Maybe I should take my $10k and turbo the bike Mr. Turbo does make a kit for it.

[white3ch0c0late]

kenny, you should ask Allen about how much his MPG and other stats changed. He told me that he was actually using more gas than he probably could have because he was punching the shit out of the SAFC-II. He had his ECU pumping plenty of gas to make sure that the engine didn't run too lean (thus risking blowing the motor).