Soft Brakes - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

Gil Chesterton · 03-23-2006, 01:31 PM

Hello,

This is my first venture into the Toyota Forum. 1993 Camry LE Sport 350,000KM.

I have been working on vehicles for many years now but never owned a Toyota. I bought this out of a junkyard for $500.00 and rebuilt it into a decent runner. So far I love it.

When I did the work on this vehicle I replaced the brake pads, turned the rotors and replaced one rear caliper that was binding. The car was stored for the winter (4 months) outdoors with a car cover.

When I ran the car this spring I noticed the brakes were soft. My thoughts are to bleed all four brakes and if that doesn't work maybe the master cylinder needs a look.

Any feedback? Any Toyota specific information that would help me here?

Thanks,

Gil

extoytech · 03-23-2006, 01:44 PM

If you haven't adjuted the rear drums try that. Other wise check for leaks along the lines and at the proportioning valve.

foompla · 03-23-2006, 02:07 PM

probably the master cylinder. every single toyota ive owed (all high mileage) have had soft brakes. the 4wheel discs are notoriously soft.

Gil Chesterton · 03-23-2006, 05:25 PM

I have 4 wheel disc. All my previous vehicles had rear drums so when the pedal was low/soft I could bring it up with the rear adjustment.

With 4 wheel disc I'm looking for feedback. It must be in the lines or the master cylinder.

Cyorke · 03-23-2006, 06:54 PM

how much did you drive it after you got it running before you parked it. Maybe you jsut didnt notice it before and when you replaced the one caliper it didnt get bled well enough.

I have a 94 V6 with rear discs and I like the way the brakes feel they dont seem to soft at all. NO worse than my 02 Sienna that has rear drums.

foompla · 03-25-2006, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyorke

how much did you drive it after you got it running before you parked it. Maybe you jsut didnt notice it before and when you replaced the one caliper it didnt get bled well enough.

I have a 94 V6 with rear discs and I like the way the brakes feel they dont seem to soft at all. NO worse than my 02 Sienna that has rear drums.

the camry pedal isnt soft at all. its just low.

the new camrys fixed that up

terrastrife · 03-25-2006, 01:59 PM

i have 4 discs and my pedal is nice and firm and under normal driving i rarely go past 1/2 pedal distance throw.

last bleed/flush was about 30,000km ago. also had new rotors and bendix pads put in.

***Eye8Pussies*** · 03-25-2006, 03:36 PM

hmmm....I always found the brake soft on my camry...and even more so these days.....

I haven't had time to do my spring brake check and tune-up....maybe I should check the pressure in my lines incase my master cylinder is going...

is there anyway I can check this myself with something from an autoshop? or would I have to bring it to my mech?

foompla · 03-25-2006, 06:15 PM

if you have a pressure gauge you can do it i suppose. not really something thats done too often...........

Gary_602Z · 03-25-2006, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eye8Pussies

hmmm....I always found the brake soft on my camry...and even more so these days.....

I haven't had time to do my spring brake check and tune-up....maybe I should check the pressure in my lines incase my master cylinder is going...

is there anyway I can check this myself with something from an autoshop? or would I have to bring it to my mech?

I doubt most mechanics would do this with out blowing you off. Plus where would they get the specs? If they say they can ask them where they got the specs from.

Gary

***Eye8Pussies*** · 03-25-2006, 08:43 PM

well, yeah, it's not something that you can walk into toyota and ask for them to do, but my mechanic would do it if I asked.....

but by the same token, it really doesn't seem to be worth the effort....my brakes feel a bit soft, but they work perfectly fine....and are nice and hard when I brake fast....and I have no problems at all locking up my wheels.....so maybe I'm still not too comfortable with the progressive braking thing

Gil Chesterton · 03-27-2006, 08:53 AM

I drove it for a while after I did the work (when I bought it) last Spring. At least 5000km. I noticed some softness but not enough to be concerned (just assumed it was normal for the model). Now that I have taken it out of storage I noticed the throw was way past 1/2 most of the time I brake and so soft I would probably not be able to lock up my brakes. That tells me it is worse than last year.

I think I will bleed one at a time starting with the new caliper and progressively work around the other three looking for improvement after each one. If I can isolate the area I can look for leaks or other line issues and then if all four seem solid I'll look at the master cylinder.

Make sense?

Cyorke · 03-27-2006, 09:02 AM

Like someone else said the pedal on the Cmarys can be sorta low in the first place so maybe that is what you are feeling.

If you bleed the brakes make sure you start with the one farthest away from the master cylinder. If that one ahppens to be the one you replaced then that is great. If not jsut start with the passenger rear and work your way around to the front.

73sport · 03-27-2006, 12:01 PM

All,
Here are a couple things that might help those spongy brakes.
While pressure bleeding, take a soft mallet and tap the caliper/wheel cylinder several times to release trapped bubbles and allow them to rise to the top and be purged from the system.

While braking, get a feel for vibrations and/or pulsing in the pedal or steering wheel. These are signs of warped and hard spots on your rotor/drums. Get a dial indicator and check for rotor/drum warpage.

Warped rotors or rotors with hard spots, push the calipers piston and pads away from the rotor with every revolution. When you apply the brakes, you have to re-seat the pads against the rotor. This means more pedal travel!

NOTE: You must clamp the rotor in place by means of a lug nuts and spacers or your readings will be all over the place.

If you don't have a dial indicator to measure run-out, take it to the shop. On a rear rotor, you can easily spin them by hand and feel them drag on the pads. The drag should be uniform all the way around.

Something else to consider, if you have ABS and LOAD SENSING PROPORTIONING VALVE (LSPV) and YOU LOWERED your car. You may have overlooked adjusting this valve for the new ride height? Overlooking this would mean the rear brakes are trying to do more of the stopping than before you lowered it. The front brakes are meant to do more stopping. Be careful here....

Some reference info can be found here:
http://www.**********s.com/camry/br.pdf
Pages: 33 and 50 (front/rear) and Pages: 194 and 201 (front/rear)

Regards,
ra

Gil Chesterton · 03-28-2006, 11:03 AM

Thanks for all the great advice!!

I guess I'm just lucky because the replaced caliper is the passenger rear so I'll be starting there!!

The rotors were doen 5000km ago but I have notived better response in the brakes since they have been "worked back in" (driving a little after the long storage). I will go ahead and bleed them out. I like the idea of tapping out the bubbles.

I'll post back results when I finish.

Thanks again.