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I know somewhere someone has asked this kind of thing before but i did a lot of searching and couldn't find the answer.
My question is, i have a 2001 xle v6, and from what i gather it falls into the production timeline that may have the affected engine sludge problem. However, i just bought it used, toyota certified pre-owned. Meaning they should have given it a full and in-depth inspection.
My question is would they have noticed if it indeed had the engine sludge problem?
And also, do i have to wait for the car the have a problem before getting the sludge problem fixed or can i take it to the dealer proactivly to get it taken care of?
Thanks in advance, and some personal success stories of taking it to a dealer to get it fixed for free would be nice to hear.
Some 4.7 million engines sold in the U.S. may be prone to developing sludge.
Photograph by Rocky Carr
A killer named sludge may live in your engine and can choke the life from your car, regardless of maintenance or mileage. And the automakers whose engines are susceptible to sludge still aren't always eager to help.
Sludge often forms when oil oxidizes and breaks down after prolonged exposure to high temperatures. The baked oil turns gelatinous and can block vital oil passages, which could lead to repairs exceeding $8,000 or even an engine replacement.
While sludge often results from poor upkeep, notably not changing oil at prescribed intervals, some engines from Audi, Chrysler, Saab, Toyota, and Volkswagen appear prone to it (see the chart below).
The Center for Auto Safety says it received about 1,300 sludge complaints in the first half of 2005. Toyota, the company with the most engines in question, cited 3,400 complaints through 2002 but hasn't provided an updated number since. And while about 4.7 million engines sold in the U.S. may have sludge-prone designs, the problem rate as reflected in our reliability data is very low. But that's little solace to those affected by it.
The automakers initially blamed these concerns on poor care and resisted covering repair costs. However, all but Chrysler have begun replacement or repair programs, even for those who bought their vehicles used. Chrysler says it will handle sludge complaints individually.
AUTOMAKERS play tough
These programs put the burden of proof on the owner, however. While Toyota, Lexus, Audi, Saab, and Volkswagen have extended engine coverage to eight years from the original purchase, the deals come with fine print.
Volkswagen's policy requires that customers produce all oil-change records. Saab will repair or replace its engines only after its own maintenance review, and Toyota asks for proof of at least one oil change a year.
Those conditions would require attentive record-keeping for original owners, but it could cause headaches for used-vehicle owners. Even with the extended engine warranties, some consumers are denied repair compensation when they first approach the manufacturer.
When Sarah Bolek's 2001 Volkswagen Passat hit 59,000 miles in 2004, the engine succumbed to sludge. The repair estimate was $9,000, says Bolek, who lives in Boyds, Md.
Despite the warranty, Volkswagen originally turned down her reimbursement request. The automaker objected to two oil changes because a shop had not recorded the vehicle's mileage. Still, all the oil changes were within recommended intervals.
“They kept telling me it was my fault,” Bolek says. Meanwhile the car was out of service for four months.
When contacted by CR, the company said that it was investigating Bolek's claim and that it had paid for part of the repair. A week later, it picked up the balance of Bolek's bill.
Clarence Ditlow, executive director of the Center for Auto Safety, says consumers must be persistent with dealers and manufacturers concerning sludge. “Too few consumers complain beyond the dealer,” he says. “Manufacturers know that every hurdle they create will make more consumers drop out.”
HOW TO FIGHT SLUDGE
Consumer Reports urges vehicle owners to keep thorough records of their automobile maintenance and repairs and make sure all receipts contain the date, mileage, and vehicle identification number.
CR also recommends that owners of vehicles with sludge-prone engines use an American Petroleum Institute-approved synthetic motor oil or change oil according to the “extreme use” schedule in the vehicle's manual.
Synthetics have a higher tolerance for extreme heat and flow better in cold temperatures. When using any oil, be sure it meets manufacturer viscosity guidelines.
Changing oil on the extreme use schedule (and saving the records) provides evidence that you tried to protect the engine from sludge.
Used-car buyers considering those vehicles should locate one with complete maintenance records.
Engines in question
Makes - Engine - Models and years - U.S. engine population* - New-engine warranty
Audi/Volkswagen - 1.8L 4 turbo 1997-2004 Audi A4, Volkswagen Passat - 447,000 8 years/unlimited mileage
Chrysler/Dodge - 2.7L V-6 1998-2002 Chrysler Concorde, Chrysler Sebring, Dodge Intrepid, Dodge Stratus - 797,000 - None. Chrysler will handle on a case-by-case basis
Lexus/Toyota - 3.0L V-6 1997-2001 Lexus ES300, Toyota Camry, Toyota Avalon, Toyota Sienna; 1999-2001 Lexus RX300,
Toyota Camry Solara; 2001 Toyota Highlander - 1,577,000 - 8 years/unlimited mileage
2.2L 4 1997-2001 Toyota Camry, 1996-99 Toyota Celica, 1999-2001 Toyota Camry Solara - 1,757,000 - 8 years/unlimited mileage
Saab - 2.0L 4 turbo 2000-02 9-3 hatchback, 2000-03 9-3 convertible - 82,000 - 8 years/unlimited mileage
2.3L 4 turbo 1999-2003 Saab 9-5, 1999 9-3 Viggen - 68,000 8 years/unlimited mileage
* Source: Analysis from Ward's Auto Info Bank (approximate).
They expect everyone to keep records of their oil changes? And what if you do it yourself? I'd duke it out to the death but I'm sure the average consumer would be discouraged easily.
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'05 2AZ-FE @ 47K miles | '95 1MZ-FE @ 92K miles moving forward
that article was a little helpful. But not totally what i'm looking for. i.e. The toyota certified label the car has. That should mean that the service department who inspected the car says that car has no problems i.e. the sludge problem. I know all about the nature of the problem.
What i'm asking is opinions or stories of people who have had it taken care of by toyota. And what to expect since i don't have the records (although in the car fax it shows several entries for "service" but no details as to what kind of service that is.
They expect everyone to keep records of their oil changes? And what if you do it yourself? I'd duke it out to the death but I'm sure the average consumer would be discouraged easily.
you keep receipts from the purchase of filters and oil. You'll have to use it in conjunction w/ a mileage log. Its alot of work, if you use your car at all for work, then around tax time, you may be able to get some deductions.
that article was a little helpful. But not totally what i'm looking for. i.e. The toyota certified label the car has. That should mean that the service department who inspected the car says that car has no problems i.e. the sludge problem. I know all about the nature of the problem.
What i'm asking is opinions or stories of people who have had it taken care of by toyota. And what to expect since i don't have the records (although in the car fax it shows several entries for "service" but no details as to what kind of service that is.
so long as you take care of the car, there shouldnt be any problems because the certification begins with you. There is almost no way for the dealer to tell if there is a lot of sludge in the engine before they sold it to you...however if you want, you can run a bottle of engine flush through it next oil change and see if a lot of crap comes out. Moreover, if you oil stays relatively clean for its life...(ie. 3000 miles), then you probably dont have many sludge issues coming your way.
Someone correct me if i am wrong.
that article was a little helpful. But not totally what i'm looking for. i.e. The toyota certified label the car has. That should mean that the service department who inspected the car says that car has no problems i.e. the sludge problem.
In a perfect world, yes, but in reality your car probably didn't get looked at any more thouroughly than any other car.
The "certification" and "inspection" is a selling gimick so they can charge more money for the car. The only thing you may have gained by buying certified is a longer/better used car warranty (then again, maybe not) and they usually pick the better looking ones cosmetically to be the 'certified' cars. Cosmetics is what most people care about when they buy used
If you are mechanically inclined at all, pull the valve cover and take a look. This is not a 100% accurate test, but if you see sludge under the valve cover, chances are there is sludge elsewhere.
People in the know swear by Auto-rx engine cleaner
When I bought my 2002 Camry I thought it fell in the sludge problem category, so I did a bit of research.
Apparently lot of Toyota's were prone to this sludge problem, as many models share the same engine, but how many actually developed the sludge problem is another question. Toyota is known as the best for reliability. If the sludge problem were really bad and affected many Toyota's, it would have crippled Toyota's sales. So what I'm trying to say is, the problem is not as bad as what many people think. The ones that have developed this sludge problem, must have been owners that really abused their cars (no oil change for months or a year).
If you do a search in the internet, you'll see that a LOT of Toyota models are prone to this problem. Yet, Toyota is still the best for reliability.
A few things to check and ask yourself:
1. the dip stick, does it have a tea like stain
2. open the oil cap, any dark grey sludge.
3. what's the mileage of your 2001?
4. any service records?
5. Look at the car, interior and exterior. Was it well maintained. As a GENERAL RULE, if the body and the interior is well maintained, most likely the owner maintained it mechanically as well. Not always true, but for the most part this would be the case.
6. If you have the VIN number, toyota should be able to find any service done at all toyota dealers.
If you are still worrried, bring it to a mechanic and get it checked out. If the engine is fine, you shouldn't have any future problems as longs as you maintain it well from this point forward. Oil changes are cheap, especially if you do it yourself. I change mine every 3 months regardless of the mileage. it's about $20 CND for every oil change for me, including Toyota filter and Castro motor oil, 5W30.
Inside the oil cap there is some dark black stuff built up but it looks like most oil caps i have opened before.
The car only has 39,500 miles on it. The interior is still nearly new as well as the exterior as well. I looked under the car and noticed a lot of oily crap built up though.
No real service records are in it though.
Carfax History shows only the following services:
10/30/2000 Vehicle manufactured and shipped to original dealer
12/29/2003 23,627miles Vehicle serviced Lubed oil and filter changed
07/27/2004 29,996miles Vehicle serviced Lubed oil and filter changed
09/13/2004 30,917miles Vehicle Serviced
11/10/2004 32,000miles Vehicle serviced Emissions system serviced Fuel system serviced
And then thats it for service records. The dipstick right now shows very very clean oil in the engine. Hopefully the Emissions and Fuel system servicing was just regular maintence.
I bought my 1999 Camry LE v6 as a toyota certified used vehicle and mine had problems including the engine sludge. If your engine has this, then you have the sludge problem:
Took the car into my local Toyota (not the one I bought from) with a bunch of printouts about the sludge problem so they knew I knew what I was talking about and had a service manager come out and look at my car. After looking at if for about 30 seconds they told me they would take it in that week and about $3000 later paid by Toyota I had a new engine.
LOL MY ENGINE HAS PLENTY OF THAT. You're really only seeing the engine oil filter...but i guess having that stuff on it constitutes as sludge. How did your oil show up on your dipstick? clean and light yellow after an oil change until maybe 2000 miles into it?
Dipstick had specs of crap in the oil. I couldn't tell you how it was after an oil change because I caught on to all this stuff soon after I bought the car and started researching.
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Dealership Repair for Sludge Problem?
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