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Alright with my 5sfte project coming to completion, I need to plan for the inevitable kaboom. I plan that by the end of summer I will have destroyed the motor since this is my first turbo motor build. When that is done I was thinking of buying a halfcut 3sgte swap.
Now before everyone gets all crazy on me hear me out. If the stock 5 Speed which is what I have will hold up to 5sfte power of 160-200hp (which it has time and time again) then I think it should do fine with the power of a 1st gen 3sgte that is in an unmodified stock state. If I keep it low key around 200hp it should be reliable and yet powerful for a camry. If I keep the stock tranny which has only 30k miles on it btw, then I can get around the custom motor mounts.
Then I would need a flywheel which would come with the halfcut, and a new clutch pressure plate for the 3sgte with the 5sfe clutch disc which I have right now. My ACT clutch has only 10,000 miles on it so the disc should still be fine for awhile. Now I already have a front mount intercooler so that is not a problem, few new charge pipes mabe which are free to me (friends with TIG welders rule!) and I already have a custom stainless downpipe and custom 2.5 inch exhaust which I built myself. ( I can weld and do all my own labor).
The wiring would be a pain but the car can be down for weeks if it needs to, I would have the 3SGTE ECU and harness and I can read wiring diagrams and am very skilled at making wiring harnesses. Basically power windows and stuff like that might not work for awhile but I could get the car to run and fix everything else at my own pace. My car has no airconditioning so that is no problem and the best part is that I have a newly rebuilt JDM ceramic twin entry turbo that can replace a worn out turbo on the halfcut if needed.
Since I would have the halfcut all the igniters, hoses, and accessories should be right there. So why couldnt I just do this? By the way I am not some inexperienced kid I have done many many motor replacements, tranny swaps on nissans, toyotas, pontiacs, fords,, everything. Basically I am just asking if there are any major flaws in my theory that you guys see?
Isn't the 5 speed tranny the E-153? And Isn't that supposed to be able to handle power decently?
And if i read correctly, your question is.
Once my 5s blows, and I swap a 3s-gte in, Do I need a new clutch? Or are you asking, can I just switch motors and not really buy anything new and reuse stuff?
Edit: And performance is not cheap. 5k will not go very far. It will only get you a very basic turbo job//engine swap. You probably won't be able to run a ton of power w/ 5k.
I don't mean to thread-jack, but this always seems to come up on 3SGTE topics. Say for an engine and tranny swap from a 5SFE including wiring harnesses and all the other miscellaneous parts and labor.
If you have a shop do it, probably at least about 4-5k for each swap.
It may be cheaper if you do it yourself, but it will also take more time and work...
Dammit here we go again. Alright, first I am not asking about the clutch. I am presenting a general theory and asking you guys to critique it.
Everytime I see a 3sgte post everyone says it will be like $5k but they include like $2000 for labor. I will not need to pay any labot since I will do all the work.
Thanks for the heads up about the 1st gen 3s, really I will take any decent low milage half cut I can find. I happen to have some very nice hookups myself actually which is how I paid under $400 for a rebuilt turbo, powdercoated manifold, MAP sensor, injectors, intercooler, downpipe, extra turbo for fittings and parts, extra manifold, extra injectors, brackets and some other stuff. A 3S cut I can get for mabe $2000 locally.
Next why is this half ass? Its not a full buildup true but then again if the stock tranny will hold 200hp then why upgrade? Pressure2 the guy with the 250 hp celica is running a stcok 5s tranny and it is holding together. Besides the S51 tranny acn be had for very cheap around here like $300 so even if I go thru a tranny each year it is fine by me.
^He's saying it sounds like you doing a half-assed job because it sounds like you are afraid to spend money. Ufoz, especially after all of his engine blowups, strikes me as one who Will spend whatever money needed to get the final objective.
Meaning, he'll get the best part possible for everything.
Edit: And your plans sounds decent. It'd pretty much be a 3s swap because you'll need to redo piping. You should be able to reuse both the IC and the 3s-gte ecu.
Well, the grand total for just my parts list is around $6000 (keep in mind that Im using a 3rd gen motor, which is newer and pricier). Then factor in the cost of labor after that, which for the amount of hours spent on the swap will probably come out to around $3-4K... Youre looking at almost $10G for a setup just like mine.
Charlie is doing his own swap... But he also has the luxury of a garage to do it in, plus he actually has the knowledge to wire it all up on his own.
Id say that $2000 is on the high side for a 2nd gen motor only... You might want to consider buying a complete clip, because it will include absolutely everything you need. I ran into a couple of problems because I bought a motor only, and it didnt come with a couple of key things, so the swap was delayed while we waited for this and that to be delivered from the dealer.
An S51 tranny for $300? That's a complete rip off, especially when I was just at the junkyard the day before yesterday and I found an E153 for $350...
Yeah I realize how much you spent again you are buying a really nice engine and paying for labor and having mounts made. I just have different goals than you lol. Again I can do the swap, time and effort are not a problem. I have a 6 car garage to use if I need it, full air tools, welding equipment and lots of help. I have close friends who are experts with a TIG welder so making stainless downpipes and aluminum charge piping is easy.
I was going to do the E153 tranny but they are so hard to find. Around here I was afraid that if it went out, it would take months to run down a replacement. Again, I do not need the strength of the E153 for a 180 hp motor the whole reason for 3s is reliability. A 180 hp basically stock 3s will run forever. A 180hp 5sfte is right at the breaking limit. I have not been able to find anything less than standalone to control a 97 + 5sfe with distributorless wasted spark ignition. For the price of a standalone and tune I could be well on the way to a 3S swap and yes I would look for a full clip (halfcut).
97camryman, it actually sounds like you are on the right track here...
Get a 90-93 Celica all-trac/gt4 clip - 200 (US) or 225 (JDM) horsepower in stock form. Unmodified and driven reasonably will work just fine with your transmission (which is in S54, not S51). Maintenance parts from there on out are easy to find at a US Toyota dealer.
You will use a 3s-gte flywheel, and pressure plate with a custom clutch (3s-gte size with S54 tranny splines - Spec makes one for this)
You will need at least one custom mount (timing belt side) along with custom exhaust piping to go around the Camry subframe.
Wiring and other stuff is like any other motor swap from that point on. Let me know if you need any help on the JDM wiring differences (btw, the pin names are written on the PCB inside the ECU )
This seems like the perfect plan for around 200whp reliably at a decent price.
-Charlie
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2003 Impreza WRX Wagon 5spd - 2.2L stroker + other goodies
1989 Camry Alltrac LE 3S-GTE 5spd - SV25/ST205 hybrid
1990 Camry 3S-GTE 5spd - parted out / junked
1990 Camry DX 3S-FE 5spd - The original white90dx; gone but not forgotten
your transmission (which is in S54, not S51). Maintenance parts from there on out are easy to find at a US Toyota dealer.
This seems like the perfect plan for around 200whp reliably at a decent price.
-Charlie
Why does everyone keep telling me I have an S54 when I know it is an S51? I know because that is the tranny I ordered and installed myself! Either way I appreciate the discussion, it is how I learn best. But yeah this is a little down the road but with my experience from the tranny swap and 5sfte build I have learned that these projects must begin well in advance of when it will need to be done. The exhaust is easy, I love getting practice with my welder and have plenty of extra piping. 200 whp safely will be enough for me for at least the next few years.
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