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Ok so every time I hope into my car no matter what time of day it is, it always takes two tunrs of the key to get the car started. Now if I really want it to start up on the first turn I would have to hold the key there until the engine finally decides to catch, but...I don't like doing that...it seems wrong in some weird moral way lol, turn the key a second time and she starts right up with no problems.
It happens whether A/C is on or off
The car will start up right away if it has been running (within 5-10 minutes)
starter seems fine
Basically the engine turns over a whole lot just doesn't start up until the second time around.
I've also got some electrical problems....
1. Cornering lights don't work, rear parking lights work so it isn't the fuse, bulbs are good.
2. If I turn on my a/c all internal lights and headlights dim
Ok i'm a tech support guy, so when it comes to electronics I catch on pretty easily, but I know next to nothing about the electrical systems on cars, i've ordered a chilton's manual but I like second opinions!
So if y'all have any ideas or whatnot lemme know! I'll try to look up some wiring diagrams this evening so I start checking for faults.
It sounds like you may have a weak alternator. So get a voltmeter/multimeter, set it to 12V-DC and start your car and measure at the battery. At idle it should be 14 to 15 volts range, 13.9 is low but acceptable. Any lower, check your alt belt, if it isnt loose and slipping, change the alternator or at least remove it and take to the auto parts and have it tested.
As for the starting issue - thats an odd one but i understand what you are saying, excesive cranking needed on first start of the day. The first and easiest thing to try, is cleaning your throttle body and IAC. Theres a hundred posts on this topic, but it is easy. Just loosen the clamp at the air filter hose and move it aside, use some TB cleaner or carb cleaner, and a toothbrush and rags and get it spotless and i bet you notice a difference.
Spray-scrub-wipe with paper towels and rags. Then expect bunch of smoke and rough running for a minute or two on start up til it burns away. And this may improve your cold starting some if not fully fix the problem.
Get a Haynes manual, not a Chilton - Haynes are much better. The problem with Chilton is that they are sometimes WRONG on stuff. For example. the Chiltons for my old 83 Sentra stated the following, that one of the steps for changing the timing belt (I swear) is "remove cylinder head"! Haven't bought a Chilton since.
I'll go ahead and try that, only it's not the first start of the day...I go to work at 6pm it happens then, I go to lunch at 10pm, it happens then, I go home at 3am...it happens then too, but what you are saying does make sense.
Might as well change the air filter while i'm at it, I went on a fifteen minute break after reading this, and tried to look, couldn't quite see in the dark but what I did notice is whoever owned the car before me let the air filter get pretty tore up, then they tried to jimmy rig the tears in the air filter with electrical tape ><...who in their right mind....I swear...
The starting problem, sounds like a fuel pressure problem. Fuel should remain in the system on shut down, but seems to be leaking off. On the first attempt, it is still priming the system, which is why it starts right up on the second try. To test this theory, turn the key to the on position for ten seconds, to allow the pump to run the fuel in, and then try to start it.
The AC problem is not totally unusual, while at idle. The AC idle up should increase the idle a few 100 RPM to compensate for this. If it is not just at idle, then get the alt and battery checked.
The starting problem, sounds like a fuel pressure problem. Fuel should remain in the system on shut down, but seems to be leaking off. On the first attempt, it is still priming the system, which is why it starts right up on the second try. To test this theory, turn the key to the on position for ten seconds, to allow the pump to run the fuel in, and then try to start it.
The AC problem is not totally unusual, while at idle. The AC idle up should increase the idle a few 100 RPM to compensate for this. If it is not just at idle, then get the alt and battery checked.
Do the 4-ways work?
Well when I start up my a/c the idle def, doesn't go up...i've got to get back under the hood and make another adjustment to the throttle and throttle cable, I still have to much play in my gas pedal and the engine is right on the border of trying to quit on me when I turn the a/c on @ idle.
I'll check the four-ways when I go down to leave for work.
Well this morning as I was leaving work I tried turning the key to the on position, it was maybe thirty seconds before I tried to start the engine and still no go, I usually do a shakedown on the car early thursday mornings so what i'll do is head up to walmart and snag a multimeter/voltmeter and check the alt/battery, I've got a good idea as to what the throttle body is, i'll do some reasearch on the IAC and get those both cleaned up thursday morning as well.
Are there diagrams out there that will give me some sort of idea as to how the electrical lines are run through the car?
the ac idle is set by a white plastic knob on a vacuum switch on the intake manifold and the base idle is set with a screw under a rubber plug on top of bthe throttle body, not the cable
the ac idle is set by a white plastic knob on a vacuum switch on the intake manifold and the base idle is set with a screw under a rubber plug on top of bthe throttle body, not the cable
Actually that screw is exposed at the bottom of the throttle body, I twisted that out a little so that the drag caused by the a/c wouldn't knock the engine idle so low that it would stall
I tightened the throttle cable because I have to much play in my gas pedal
Ok i'd like to clarify something really quickly...the IACV which was mentioned in earlier posts serves the purpose of bringing the idle back up after the a/c knocks it down...right?
I kind of feel you have a fuel issue. I don't believe Gen2 fuel pumps come on with the key until the MAF sensor (on the air filter lid) determines that there is air flow.
Ok so every time I hope into my car no matter what time of day it is, it always takes two tunrs of the key to get the car started. Now if I really want it to start up on the first turn I would have to hold the key there until the engine finally decides to catch, but...I don't like doing that...it seems wrong in some weird moral way lol, turn the key a second time and she starts right up with no problems.
It happens whether A/C is on or off
The car will start up right away if it has been running (within 5-10 minutes)
starter seems fine
Basically the engine turns over a whole lot just doesn't start up until the second time around.
My Gen2 has that same problem. First turn of the key, it won't start, 2nd turn and it starts right up. Any time, any conditions, -40C in winter or 40C in the summer. It will start up again fine if the engine has been running for a few minutes.
I replaced the following parts from spare parts / junked cars while trying to solve it:
Fuel pump (also installed a switch to try priming it before starting)
AFM + Filter
Spark plugs, wires, distributor, igniter
Starter
Alternator
Battery
Timing belt + Pullies + Water pump
Steering rack and pump
Water temp. sensors and thermostat
Cold starter + switch
Fuel pressure regulator + rail + injectors + filter
Cleaned throttle body / IAC a few times
I finally just gave up on it since it always starts on the 2nd try. The one thing I didn't try was the ECU.
Ok i'd like to clarify something really quickly...the IACV which was mentioned in earlier posts serves the purpose of bringing the idle back up after the a/c knocks it down...right?
That part im not so sure about - thats done electronically i think. The IAC controls idle air under all conditions by allowing more air into the plenum. It has coolant hoses going to it (presumably to keep it from icing up in cold weather) - but the signal to open or close IAC is again done electronically.
And notice that even when the IAC is closed, it is not really closed, there is still an air gap and this gap is for cold starts. So when it gets dirty, (which it alway does because PCV oily air gets piped into the plenum) this can definetely affect your idle. Because the air gap isnt what Toyota designs it to be, as the dirt is changing the air gap. Same goes for the throttle butterfly, not only will dirt affect the idle it can also make the butterfly stick when it should be opening. So this is why Camry owners soon learn the mantra "clean the butterfly and IAC."
Well she finally quit starting on me one morning, I think at one point I held the key at the ignition position for about a full minute, had her towed to the shop....ended up being the fuel regulator, get my car back from the shop...still doesn't start right away. Thanks for the info on the IAC and butterfly, this starting thing is starting to get to me, it's not cool going out to your car to go to work and find out it won't start, and then find out when you get it back from the shop that it's having the same problems.
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Second Time's A Charm (Startup Issue)
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