How the 5s-fe engine works?

[kamrhee]

Strange or silly title? Not really. I have a 98 LE with about 125K mi. and everything is still original except A/F sensor, VSV and EGR. Maintenance by mechanic includes regular belts changes (just once) and the usual oil/fluid/filter replacement by myself.

I am planning to change the timing belt, related belts and water pump and was reading KEN4 post about his timing belt change topic (KEN4, you there?). Why are there so many parts to change? Bearings, seals, pulleys, etc. Seems like everything need to be replaced except the kitchen sink! Kidding aside. Just wanted to know how the engine works and where and how the said part works. I've been reading a few post from 88LE and some other regarding maintenance and changes. Since I'm planning to do these, there's also some other issues I need to know whether I can handle or not. One is the slow oil leak coming from the back of the head cover (I think). Not enough to be of a concern but you know its there. The reason why I know this is because the wire sheathing behind the engine is covered with gunk. Every oil change I would notice that it is damp with oil and part of the underside is covered with dirt that had stuck to the underchassis. Could this be a blown head gasket. I can see what looks like seepage around the side of the engine head. Another is the dreaded "white smoke". Again not enough to be of a concern since just puffs a little bit when starting the engine. Have read this might be a valve seal issue. Are these issues to big of a job to handle or is it within reasonable limits for a regular 9 to 5 guy?

Hope to get some input from you guys. Thanks in advance. Best site to get information ! Have looked elsewhere.

kamrhee.

ps. KEN4, which city are you in. Worked there for like 4 year and missed the food really bad! You know what I mean.

[Dave's]

Well, I think that it's just that you have to take so much stuff off just to get to the belt that many just do everything they can while they're there to hopefully prevent going back in there before the next belt change. (Thus the term, preventive maintenance) It would suck to change the belt and 30k later have the pump or a seal start leaking.

[diengcamry]

Sounds like you have a leaking valve cover. If you had a blow head gasket your oil would look like chocolate milk. You would also have over heating issues and coolant loss not to mention some kind of power loss. Valve cover gasket isn't that hard if you remember how to put it all back.

[kamrhee]

Dave, that's what I'm going through right now. I don't mind spending the extra dough on other parts as long as I get them done in the least amount of effort.

Diengcamry, maybe that's the problem and maybe not. Oil changes every (3K-5K mi., based on a 4 month period regardless of mileage) shows the same stuff so oil isn't affected as described (choc. milk). As for heat issues, that may be true but why am I still having the same temp. throughout the years of use. Temp. needle just a little bit lower at half mark. No overheating issue (knock on wood!) Coolant looks like soiled water last time I changed it. And last spark plug change indicated the tips of the plugs were like frosted white. Checked Haynes book and it said something like extreme heat. Anyway cars is in fine shape but I have to do what I have to do. Don't want to wait till the last minute to change what's due.

Thanks for the tips guys.

kamrhee

[Ken4]

If you are mechanically inclined and enjoy tinkering with your car, this is the perfect opportunity for you! You will not necessarily save money doing it yourself. But you will gain valuable learning experience fixing your own car. In fact, you may need to spend more money buying the proper tools! You will need to buy a Haynes Repair Manual or you can refer to this:

http://oregonstate.edu/~tongt/camry/

You will also needs lots of time. You shouldnt be pressured for time. If halfway you discover you need another part or tool, and it's a Sunday, you may just have to leave the car garaged until the next weekend.

Top end leak is very common for the 5SFE. Try tightening the spark plug tube nuts first (spec is 33 ft-lbs if I remember correctly) to see if it stops. And do an engine steam clean or simply use engine degreaser.

When you remove your spark plugs, do you see oil on the spark plug threads? Spark plug tubes need resealing, common problem too.

I also recommend you an Auto-Rx treatment to clean up your internals.

www.auto-rx.com

[diengcamry]

You don't have a blown head gasket. You have a leaking valve cover gasket. It's fairly easy to change if you have the patience and the tools.
You may have to change the type of plug you use. There are different heat ranges for plugs. I really don't know much about heat ranges so maybe someone with more experience will chime in. I would have your cooling system checked if the water color is rusty looking. I know the inside of the motor can cause some rusting but the radiator causes it also and it can be changed out fairly easy in a couple hours.

[Ken4]

White smoke on startup could just be condensation in the exhaust. Nothing serious.

[kamrhee]

Ken4, You're right about be inclined in some ways to do your own repair/maintenance. As for the spark plug tubes, I'll try tightening it. As long as I can remember, it hasn't been touch by anyone. Will do the required torque to see if it stops the leak. The spark plugs that I changed out didn't have any oil at the treads so I guess that's a good since. Can't say the same thing about the heat.

Auto.rx. Have read alot about this. Is this stuff the same as SEAFOAM? Use this once. Can't really tell if it helped and didn't see that huge cloud that was suppose to be. Guess it wasn't that dirty to begin with.

Diengcamry, I'll see if the gasket is available after I try Ken4's suggestion about the torque requirement. Shouldn't be that hot but it is. Anyway, coolant is new and temp. as I stated earlier is not even half way. Will change out the coolant again since I didn't drain the remaining old coolant in the block.

[Ken4]

Seafoam is used for cleaning the intake track, throttle body, IAC valve and cc. Auto-RX is for cleaning the engine internals.

[Kep]

kamrhee,

I am trying to get a feel for the history of this car. How long have you owned it (known it)? Has the timing belt ever been changed (you mentioned belts)? Is there antifreeze in the radiator or just water?

A blown head gasket is unlikely. However, if you have white smoke on start-up and are loosing coolant (topping off monthly?) then it is more likely. There are some decent additives to address minor leaks (I like Cargo & Steel Seal) if you catch it soon enough. I beleive that there is a check that can be done to the coolant to see if there are exhaust gasses or oil in the water if you wanted to go to that expense to rule out the head gasket.

There are a lot of posts on the forum about how to deal with the timing belt. Keep searching. It sounds like it could be done at home but I've never tried. I suspect that it would take me several days to get everything ready and then back together. Once you're in there the small stuff is quick and easy so it makes sense to go ahead and deal with it. Especially if you don't know the history of the beast or if they are getting near the end of their service life. Once you're under the cover look for evidence of oil. The main oil seals and the oil pump gaskets under the timing cover could also be contributing to the oil behind your engine.

Kep

[kamrhee]

Kep,

Car was leased back in 1998 (brand new) and took over payment in 2000. Maintained by dealership at first until 60K mi. where I had our mechanic continue the scheduled maintenance. Belts were changed back when it had 90K. Since I'm going to do some of the changes, I was thinking changing the belts again with the water pump (my primary reason). Antifreeze was changed by the mechanic. Back then I just paid him to do the maintenance. Ofcourse, I didn't know anything about cars. 2 weeks ago when I drained the radiator, dark soup, as I called it, came out. I didn't have any overheating problems. Water/antifreeze seem ok since there was no oil contamination. But the color and residue (clayish) that came out was not right. I have put in 50/50 of toyota red and distilled water. Will probably drain it again and put the same mixture since I still have half a gallon of the red stuff. That way I'm changing almost 75% of the coolant.

White smoke is there. Minor problem from what I can see. Just don't want this to become a big problem If I can do something about it now. I don't really use additive for the engine. The oil that I'm using now is a mix of 10/30 and 20/40. Trying to thicken the oil abit to imitate high mileage oil. Reason why I'm doing this is because when I use 10/30 straight, smoke would occur alot more but not that much and I still have like a box of the castrol 10/30 in the garage that I'm just finishing.

As for the belt change, yeah there's alot of info from this forum alone. Just trying to get inputs from all sides to get a good picture of what I'm going to do.

kamrhee

[diengcamry]

a compression check would show a leaking head gasket also. Be warned that it would also show the same for a bad set of rings.

[Kep]

kamrhee,

Thanks for the history. OK, now I am curious. The timing belt was changed at 90,000 and wouldn't normally be changed again until 150,000. Why are you changing the water pump? The reason I ask is that I read between the lines too much. If you have a water leak from the side of the engine then it is obvious. However, if you don't have a leak and you are loosing coolant I come back to a possible head gasket problem. The clayish color in the old coolant may have been from exhaust gasses in the coolant. Any chance the engine is running hotter than it should? Exhaust leaking into the coolant will often result in an engine running hot.

However, (I hate my convoluted thinking) you mention that thinner oil gives you more smoke. To me that means worn rings like diengcamry mentioned, though maybe worn valve seals, I don't know. The oil viscosity shouldn't have any effect on coolant leaking past a worn head gasket and you don't have oil in your water (right?). If you are not loosing coolant then I don't think it would be the head gasket.

On the other hand, if the oil makes more smoke and you are loosing coolant, it could be both I guess. From what I read, the car was leased for 2 years before you owned it. Bad owners can really screw up a car in two years but I would think that you would have seen signs earlier if you have been driving it for six years.

My preferences:
-If you don't have water dribbling out of the water pump, leave it alone (because you don't need it and step 2 will trash it out anyway).
-If you have a slight coolant leak with the white smoke consider a sealer additive to the coolant (trust me, if the water pump is starting to go out it will go out quickly after the sealer is put in. The sealer tries to seal at the water pump bearing and chews it up). No coolant leak, don't bother yet.
-I think I'd go ahead and change the oil and use a quart of slick 50 to try and close any clearance problems due to worn rings (works initially but not in extreme cases).
-If you're uncertain try a compression check. If it shows a problem then you may still want to have that chemical check of the coolant to verify or exonerate exhaust gasses in the coolant.

OK, I've probably written way too much about possibilities not actual problems. Remember, I am not a mechanic but I think what I've said is accurate. Let us know what you do.

Kep

[marc780]

I am planning to change the timing belt, related belts and water pump and was reading KEN4 post about his timing belt change topic (KEN4, you there?). Why are there so many parts to change?

Kam you are on the right track with this car. You want to get the most mileage and dependability from this car with the least amount of work and money. That goes for everyone reading this forum, so you're in the right place.

Like the other fellows said, most people, including myself, just go ahead and change all the incidental parts while they have the timing belt off... because the parts are off anyways, and not easy to get to! And i think if you stacked all the good Toyota parts ever replaced for no reason the line, would stretch to the moon.
Water pump i totally agree on, every single car i ever owned needed it changed way before 100k, so just change it and get an OEM Toyota one if you can.

But if saving money is your goal, Toyota offers good advice in their factory manual - the idlers are a wild card, they say spin it and listen for noise, if it spins silently you could chance just putting them back. The idlers cost about $100 or more for both. The bearings in them are sealed but even so, try squishing some grease in their anyway! I don't wanna get anal here but I have a hypodermic like needle attachment for my grease gun, that you can get at the auto parts and this i use to force grease into things they didnt designed to be greased. If its lubricated it will probably keep working.

[kamrhee]

Kep, the only reason I'm changing the belts is because the water pump has alot of mileage and being cautious and lazy (I think thats the right term), I don't want to do this whole procedure again. No leaks, no heating issue (as far as I know) and temp reads just a tad below half. As I said before, will change out the coolant in the radiator to get at least 75 percent new coolant in. The oil things is somewhat experimental. I still have a case of 10/30s and knowing it gives white smoke and a little leak, I'm just mixing it with thicker oil to simulate high mileage oil. If it works then good. If it doesn't, it's still going to be changed every 3K-5K interval. I might do the compression check since I know high mileage vehicles tend to loose hp. How much I don't know. And the part about the lease. Well, it was lease by my wife, that was before we got married. Knowing it had been taken cared of by the owner, we decided just to keep it. Still giving me good mileage. I think its around 30 MPG if I'm not wrong. Full take gets at least 400 mi. Most was like 440 mi. Thanks for the tip will let you guys know about the change in a few weeks.

Marc780, Just want to get the most from our car. I think we all do that. The only part I'm saving here is paid labor. Parts is still more or less the same at the dealership. Depends where you shop. Thats the reason why I posted this earlier. Theres are alot of small stuff that you don't know when to replace. Even if they're good, how long till that part gives up? Getting a ballpark timeframe when a part needs to be changed, even if its still works. Thanks for the tip.

Ken4, I notice on your timing belt DIY, you showed some bearings. Are those for the pullies? How did you remove the orig. and pressed in the new? Any special tools? Thanks again.

kamrhee