Power windows affecting idle speed??? strange+ stall outs from shift

[ag6286]

93 auto 3vz-fe 218000, rebuilt 6000 ago, full PP +other mods/add ons

Well, today i noticed that when i used the power windows at an idle my RPM drops about 50RPM or more to a critical point where stalling is close to going into affect. Anybody run into this problem before?? I have a feeling it may have something to do with the combination of low output from the Alt. + high resistance of plat +4 bosch sparks + extra power from mods in turn more current needed for spark = problem? does this make sense at all or maybe is this a normal thing.

Also lately i've noticed that when igo from D -> N -> D or D->R->N->D or D->N and hit the gas a slight bit my RPM will drop to a low point recently which has been causing my AUTO to stall out. When i do this its mostly cause im drifting backwards to turn around or somthing or reversing for whatever reasons, other times im at a stop and put it in neutral for fun (no neutral dropping is done, thats retarded). I notice at a stop, and i put it in neutral and slightly step on the gas the engine wont regulate or somethign correctly and drop RPMS so quickly every once and a while itll stall out or otherwise it will idle roughly for a breif moment and correct itself. It never used to do this before the rebuild and modding...any ideas?

[2k4CamThrilla]

Not at all, but in my 04 Camry when I goto check to see if my windows are closed i pull the switch to close and the headlights dim a lil...

[marc780]

Well, today i noticed that when i used the power windows at an idle my RPM drops about 50RPM or more to a critical point where stalling is close to going into affect.

It's electrical. Check your alternator output, and your belt tension. You can check it cheaply with a VOM from harbor freight or walamart for $5, look for 14+ volts at idle. If less, change the alternator. If this doesnt fix it, i'd take it to an auto electrical shop or dump some of the mods.

[Mike Gerber]

Listen to what marc780 said. The 50 RPM drop sounds normal. The power window motors require a lot of current, so the alternator must go in to overdrive to compensate for it. It sounds like the alternator can't keep up with the extra load.

Also, clean out your throttle body, paying particular attention to the idle air control valve at the base of the throttle body. It's the square or diamond shaped port at the base of the throttle body. Spray the throttle body cleaner (or O2 sensor safe carb cleaner) liberally in to that port. Dirty throttle bodies and in particular, dirty idle air control valves can cause the stalling and hesitation you have described.

Mike

[ag6286]

Originally Posted by Mike Gerber

Listen to what marc780 said. The 50 RPM drop sounds normal. The power window motors require a lot of current, so the alternator must go in to overdrive to compensate for it. It sounds like the alternator can't keep up with the extra load.

Also, clean out your throttle body, paying particular attention to the idle air control valve at the base of the throttle body. It's the square or diamond shaped port at the base of the throttle body. Spray the throttle body cleaner (or O2 sensor safe carb cleaner) liberally in to that port. Dirty throttle bodies and in particular, dirty idle air control valves can cause the stalling and hesitation you have described.

Mike

correct me if im wrong....alternators do not have gearing systems. If in fact there is a type of system like this then it would explain the drop, if not, it does not explain the drop except the fact the sparks arnt getting enough current to fully combust in turn affecting the RPM

[Hajoca]

I am pretty sure Overdrive to MG meant strained or overloaded.

[djarno]

When my instrument cluster lights and headlights are on at night, every time I put up my windows, they begin to dim also. Could that mean I need an alternator with a higher output because I also have an aftermarket sound system in my car. According to my capacitor, the voltage reads out 13.7x when my sound system and windows are in use.

[Mike Gerber]

Originally Posted by ag6286

correct me if im wrong....alternators do not have gearing systems. If in fact there is a type of system like this then it would explain the drop, if not, it does not explain the drop except the fact the sparks arnt getting enough current to fully combust in turn affecting the RPM

I'm not an engineer, so I could be wrong here (and I'm not being sarcastic by that statement), but I always thought the regulator inside the alternator senses the load on the electrical system and directs the alternator as to what output is needed to keep up with that load. It does put a strain on the engine, since it is driven by the engine by way of the alternator belt. Whether the alternator in question can keep up with that load may be the question. Perhaps someone with a more specific electrical background can chime in here with a better explaination.

Mike

[Hajoca]

The electrical drain on the the electrical system causes more resistance to mechanical motion (turning) at the alternator, so the engine has to work harder.

[ag6286]

Originally Posted by Hajoca

The electrical drain on the the electrical system causes more resistance to mechanical motion (turning) at the alternator, so the engine has to work harder.

completely disagree


As the alt. takes more "strain", its not a physical strain in which it can compensate. It outputs the same power reguardless of how much use by the mechanical system at hand. No gears are incorporated into the alternator and can therfore not "resist" in ways due to not enough output. Power outputted by an alternator is simply that, power outputted, it CANNOT sense its not giving enough power without additional sensors, even if it had them you would need a type of gearing system like a simple auto transmission would to strain the engine itself in turn affecting RPM's

[ag6286]

Originally Posted by Mike Gerber

I'm not an engineer, so I could be wrong here (and I'm not being sarcastic by that statement), but I always thought the regulator inside the alternator senses the load on the electrical system and directs the alternator as to what output is needed to keep up with that load. It does put a strain on the engine, since it is driven by the engine by way of the alternator belt. Whether the alternator in question can keep up with that load may be the question. Perhaps someone with a more specific electrical background can chime in here with a better explaination.

Mike

An alternator alone, does not sense the load without additional sensors, even if it did have theym it couldnt do anything about. Output is directly related to number of coils the rotor and outside coils have. It is a linear (off the top of my head) constant and can only be affected by RPMs. The only resistance will be due to the engine having to turn the rotor, and the resistance invovled is proportional to the mass of the rotor it has to turn.

[Hajoca]

AG,

the rotor will impart resistance to motion, regardless. Alternators stationary coil uses power to vary electrical power output, it is an electromagnet as well. So look at the system's in's and out's there.

The resistance of turing the rotor through the stator field is reisitive. That is passed to the pulley and belt in an auto. (mechanical connection).

[Digger1]

Originally Posted by ag6286

93 auto 3vz-fe 218000, rebuilt 6000 ago, full PP +other mods/add ons

Well, today i noticed that when i used the power windows at an idle my RPM drops about 50RPM or more to a critical point where stalling is close to going into affect. Anybody run into this problem before?? I have a feeling it may have something to do with the combination of low output from the Alt. + high resistance of plat +4 bosch sparks + extra power from mods in turn more current needed for spark = problem? does this make sense at all or maybe is this a normal thing.

Also lately i've noticed that when igo from D -> N -> D or D->R->N->D or D->N and hit the gas a slight bit my RPM will drop to a low point recently which has been causing my AUTO to stall out. When i do this its mostly cause im drifting backwards to turn around or somthing or reversing for whatever reasons, other times im at a stop and put it in neutral for fun (no neutral dropping is done, thats retarded). I notice at a stop, and i put it in neutral and slightly step on the gas the engine wont regulate or somethign correctly and drop RPMS so quickly every once and a while itll stall out or otherwise it will idle roughly for a breif moment and correct itself. It never used to do this before the rebuild and modding...any ideas?

Getting back on task here.....

My memory is getting fuzzy, but I had an '85 Camry w/ the I-4 that had a similar problem. I busted my ass trying to fix the problem before I found the solution.

YMMV, but my old car had a small pick-up coil inside the distributor that sat on the vacuum advance plate (forgive the terminology - it is probably not correct as my memory of the problem is fuzzy). One of the small wires leading to the pick-up coil had a break inside the insulation. Every time the vacuum advance plate moved (i.e., every time I hit the gas from a stop), the wire flexed and I would get a momentary open circuit, thus cutting the ignition to the engine for a split second. Then, the wire strands would come back together and the engine would kick back in.

I won't tell you how many other things I replaced/"fixed" before I found my problem. As I recall, the part was not cheap!

[davemac2]

sounds like your battery is gone and maybe putting too much strain on the alternator which is causing the voltage regulation to fail and/or your alternator is shot. Put a voltmeter across the battery terminals to see if you get 13.5 volts when running and 12 volts when not. turn your headlights on while running and check that 13.5 volts is maintained. It could also be a bad accessory belt which is loose or worn. Headlights dimming is a sure sign of alternator or battery issues.

dave mc

[Ken4]

Yup sounds like you need a new battery. Get the largest CCA battery that will fit your tray. Stronger spark will also help, try Denso IK20 regapped to 0.8mm, NGK Power Cables wireset, and maybe new ignition coils.