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Camry & Solara Lounge Discussion area for every generation of Toyota's family car, the Toyota Camry. Lexus ES250/300 owners welcome! Topics of discussion range from fuel economy, safety, modifications, performance and more.

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Old 12-07-2006, 02:04 AM   #1 (permalink)
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4th Generation 5sfe...Dun Sonnnn!

Yeah good ol' catostrohic failure hit the 5sfe today.....dont really wanna get into it, all im gunna say is its NA-TUNED 5sfe time!!!yes yes i know what most of you are thinking... ( "why not swap to a 3sgte or 1mzfe or turbo? its a waste of time and you wont even get that many gains blah blah.") i dont wanna hear it :P ! my mind is pretty much set on tuning the 5s, here are the reasons why:

1.5stfe: its not going to pass smog, i live in ca...and dont wanna deal with illegally smogging it everytime, i feel like ill be letting the terrorists win lol.

2.3sgte: same reason wont pass smog, terrorists... you know...

3. 1mzfe: thought about it, but id have to find a m/t ecu, and when it breaks id rather be working on a 4 cyl.

4. beams 3sge: i love this engine... but, its not going to pass smog and parts are a pain in the ass to come by.

5. 5sfe s/ced: thought about this one too, but no thanks, im still pissed at rippmods for dicontinuing the headers.

----------------------------------------------------------------

so here is my plan so far: (price range prolly being $3,500.00 not too sure yet.)

Block:
- Blue printed and squared
- Block Bored 0.40''
- Knife edged crank
- performance rings and wrist pins
- toga high performance main and rod bearings
- toga high velocity oil pump
- high compression forged pistons (prolly 9.5:1 compression is the best i can get away with, with 91 octane.)


Head: ( not too sure on what to do on this yet and need you guy's help.)

- port and polish w/ 3 angle valve job and blending of intake and exhaust runners...
- oversized valves w/ high performance valve springs.
- reground cams... not too sure yet still have to calculating funding...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

anyways still trying to figure out everything, but i need some N/A tuning suggestions... Thanks guys !
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Old 12-07-2006, 02:45 AM   #2 (permalink)
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look up or measure the cam lift...I think the cams and valvetrain are the biggest things holding the 5s back from making any real power...compare th the 3sgte cams and valvesprings. Or give crane, isky, (screw comp), whoever else a call and see what they can do for you. I want to tune my 5s as well, but will be living vicariously through your build as I will be buying diapers and formula in a few months....
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Old 12-07-2006, 02:59 AM   #3 (permalink)
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i waiting to hear from toysrme for his opinion
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Old 12-07-2006, 11:08 AM   #4 (permalink)
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^ lol...


and yeah....I personally don't think that it's worth the money to build up a 5sfe either....a swap to a 1mzfe would be pretty simple- and for the record, you don't need a manual tranny ecu even if you swap in a 5spd

good luck
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Old 12-07-2006, 12:13 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Depends on how far you want to take the head porting & cam profiles. If you take it to the extremes you can turn any 2.0L'ish 4 cylinder into a 7400 to 9000rpm 270-350hp engines. Most of them falling around 260-320hp.


Here's the thing. Cost VS performance.
Block:
  • - Blue printed and squared - $500-750 during assembly
  • - Block Bored 0.40'' - $220 per block sleeve, $40 per cylinder to bore & hone
  • - Knife edged crank - $400 ($200 setup, $50 per counterweight)
  • - performance rings and wrist pins - $94 for high end ring set (Deves) ,$10 per teflon button & $15 per fitting & $35 per chrome moly pin
  • - toga high performance main and rod bearings -
  • - toga high velocity oil pump -
  • - high compression forged pistons (prolly 9.5:1 compression is the best i can get away with, with 91 octane.) - You won't be able to drive this car on 9.5:1 compression pistons with the head & valvetrain you're shooting for. You MUST raise the compression to compensate for the extreme low end loss as cam profiles & head porting grow to support higher flow @ higher rpm. You're looking at 11.0:1 to 12.0:1 MINIMUM just to get it to run well.
    $420 set of pistons, $10 per overbored piston, $10 per non-standard compression piston, $15 per ceramic coated piston, $10 each per glasspeened, balanced, oil holes drilled in bosses, lightened, knurled piston skirts.
Head:
  • - port and polish w/ 3 angle valve job and blending of intake and exhaust runners...
    Get a GOOD 3-angle valvejob done. Concentrate heavily on unshrouding the valves, cleaning the bowl & cutting down the short side radious. Everything else should come at the end of the list of things to pay to be done.
    Expect $700 for a good starting port & valve job, $50/c for equaling cylinder volume, $30/port for gasket / manifold matching (blah)
  • - oversized valves w/ high performance valve springs. - Be ready to pay $25-60 per valve, $4 per inner & $8 per out valve spring
  • - reground cams... not too sure yet still have to calculating funding... - The rule of thumb is $200-220 per reground cam. For real useage you'll want them nickle welded, which will cost $50 per lobe.
btw, you're still breathing through the stock exhaust & intake manifolds. That's gunna be real nice LoL!

The heart wants what it wants, but it's a really bad idea in the long run. You'll have a stressed out, expencive, one-off engine that will want new gear ratios to suite it's now found high rpm powerband. You could easily be looking at a $7000 engine by the time you're done if you have a high end builder make you a REAL engine that will survive street & track use. Hell we haven't even gotten to how you're going to have to go MegasquirtII & Spark with a ford ignition 'cause you can't afford aftermarket EMS yet! (Not that anything i wrong with MS...)



Look... Sell the car & buy something else. If you love it, buy a v6 version of what you have, or an upgrade to it like an ES.
or, put a 1mz-fe in it. People think California engine swap laws are all anal retentive. They're not. It simply has to be an engine that is newer than the one you're replacing, and it has to retain all of it's emessions equipment.


Let's talk about the average torque output of the engine you're proposing to make. It's a race engine. Not a driving engine. I gave a range of about 260-320hp for your average really prepped i4 N/A race engine that'll actually drive somewhere.
So how about we look at a dyno of a 260-270hp ish S2000.


At this point in the discussion you:
Do not have the gearing setup *exactly* to match your powerband like this Honda does (which is exactly why Honda's get away with no low powerband - gear out of it)
Nor do you have the advantage of cam trickery. You are practically going to take your powerband under 3500rpm & cut whatever you're making now by atleast a third on a big build. The ports will not maintain velocity & the cams will be too wild.




Now compare the above torque output to a bone stock 1mz-fe:


The average torque output is about the same for well under 1/2 price on the 1mz-fe swap. So you *really* think building an i4 is a good idea?








FYI, when you short the SP1 of an A/T ECU, then run the solenoid control signals to ground with a 10w resistor. It's practically an M/T ECU. The idle, however, may be alittle finiky when coming to a stop.
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Old 12-07-2006, 12:17 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Alias. Let's skip everything I just said. Doing anything other than buying another car considering 1/3 of the amount of money involved being thrown about here is still ungodly questionable. It's great if someone wants to do it, but it's downright silly.

I mean, you'd *really* have to hate someone to tell them to do something like this... I mean really guys come on.


"To each, his own"

Sell your Camry, buy something else.
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Old 12-07-2006, 12:31 PM   #7 (permalink)
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And somebody alwys get's pissy when I bring that up about selling & buying something else. You need to watch
"When keeping it real goes wrong..."
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Old 12-07-2006, 01:29 PM   #8 (permalink)
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And the 5s-fe stock cams have the option of 234*/240* @ .310" lift, 12* of overlap VS 226*/228* @ .320" lift, 6* of overlap. The latter being Camry cams & the former being early Celica's. Understand that raw cam numbers do NOT speak for the kind of power a cam will make. There is no expression of the cam profile itself in such numbers.


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Old 02-23-2007, 05:37 PM   #9 (permalink)
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New engine!!

Ok so i finally managed to pick up a 3mz-fe for an 05 solara...since then engine is so new im having a little trouble finding out what parts to use... for example, the engine was from an automatic solara, so it still has a torque plate on it. So i need to pick up a flywheel, but i am wondering is the flywheel the same as the 1mzfe? Also Im planning on picking up an intake, is it virtually the same as the 1mzfe as well?
On another note... The engine is flyby wire.... Ewww! is it possible to use the throttle linkage from a 1mz-fe? if anyone has some suggestions for experience to share please do! thanks guys!
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