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Hey guys, i have a problem and could use your help. My 89 camry with a 3sfe engine will not start. What happened was the other day i turned the car on, it stayed on for 5 seconds then turned off. Then after that it wont turn on! When i try to start it now, the engine cranks but will not turn on. What can i check to see what is wrong with it? I know i have to check for fuel, spark, compression etc, so what are the best ways i can check for all that? Thanks.
Hey guys, i have a problem and could use your help. My 89 camry with a 3sfe engine will not start. What happened was the other day i turned the car on, it stayed on for 5 seconds then turned off. Then after that it wont turn on! When i try to start it now, the engine cranks but will not turn on. What can i check to see what is wrong with it? I know i have to check for fuel, spark, compression etc, so what are the best ways i can check for all that? Thanks.
Spark... Pull a plug lead off a plug and hold it near a good ground or the top of the plug. Have a helper crank it over. You should hear and/or see a nice fat spark
Fuel.... Spray some starting fluid into the intake. If it now starts to fire up, you likely have a fuel problem
Compression... That usually happens slowly unless the timing belt breaks. Pull the distributor cap and have a helper crank it while you look at the rotor. If it turns the belt is not broken
I took the distributor cap off and checked the timing belt today, and i had my brother crank it and the rotor turns, so the timing belt is good. I havnt checked fuel or spark yet tho. I will tomorrow or the day after.
Could you explain more on how to check for spark? I havnt done it before and i dont quite understand what you wrote. Do you mean take a plug wire out, connect a spark plug to it, then hold it to a ground and have someone crank it to see if it sparks?
Last edited by PoR2GeEzCamry; 12-27-2006 at 01:35 AM.
Remove the coil wire from the distributor, hold about ½ inch from metal chassis and crank engine.
Check link below to find the service manual for this car. The manual has a diagnostic procedure for checking the ignition and other systems. Use the Gen 2 manual.
Battery is not the problem, i have tried a brand new battery and it still would not start.
Ill try to check for spark tomorrow. So your saying all i have to do is dsiconnect the coil from the distributor and hold it close to the chasis of the car? What part is best for ground, frame rail?
Also, i wasnt driving the car when this happened, but i was told the oil light came on for a little bit before the engine just shut off. This scares because this could mean the engine might have been running with no oil pressure. Could it possibly be seized? The only thing is the engine doesnt seem to be locked up, it still cranks Any ideas??
Check for spark first. Find a location on the frame that is not painted, a bolt, stud, nut or bracket. If the engine was seized it usually gives some indication of a problem before dying. Oil pressure light issue might be tied to an electrical problem that may be causing the engine not to start.
I took the distributor cap off and checked the timing belt today, and i had my brother crank it and the rotor turns, so the timing belt is good. I havnt checked fuel or spark yet tho. I will tomorrow or the day after.
Could you explain more on how to check for spark? I havnt done it before and i dont quite understand what you wrote. Do you mean take a plug wire out, connect a spark plug to it, then hold it to a ground and have someone crank it to see if it sparks?
The fact that your rotor is turning does not necessarily mean that the timing belt is OK. This is a long shot, but the belt may have shed a few teeth and slipped.
This happened to me with my Gen 1 years ago. Really had me stumped for a while, as the car wouldn't start, but the distributor rotor was still turning.
Good luck!
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Digger1
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Alright i talked to my dad some moree about it tonight. My dad was the one driving it when it hapened, and he said that it didnt make any wierd noises, and it didnt seem like it was sluggish or anything, he said it felt normal. He said that he doesnt know if another light was on at the same time as the oil light. I know that toyota uses diagnostic indicators like the oil light and another emergency light on at the same time is an indication of a specific thing failing, or something along those lines.
I will check for spark tomorrow. What do you recomend i do to check if the teeth on the timing belt shed making it slip? Should i just remove the timing belt cover and check the teeth? Is it difficult to remove that cover?
Anything else you guys recomend i do to diagnose this situation? Thanks.
As Digger1 noted, it could possibly be the belt but slipping is somewhat unusual. Usually they just break. The oil light went on when the engine turned itself off, nothing more. If it cranks over it isn't seized.
Concentrate on the three basic issues, spark, fuel, and compression. Stick to the basics. You can worry about more involved issues later if necessary.
Check for spark first. The method has been described. If you have spark use the starting fluid.
Post back afterwards.
For the alternative fuel, I'd use choke cleaner and not starting fluid. Starting fluid can detonate and break something, and choke cleaner is a chemical the engine can run on. It burns much more slowly.
If the engine seems to crank faster than usual, check to make sure the rotor is rotating inside the distributor cap during cranking. If it is, the belt is in place. Could it have torn off some belt teeth and be beyond the reach of timing necessary to start? Sure, but you can come back to that possibility later, after you check the other things.
To check for spark (if you don't have a tester) use an old plug and ground it against the block. Crank it and look for a spark. No spark with a rotating distributor will mean more diag work, and a check of the igniter.
So, have a spark? Spray some choke cleaner in there. Does it fire up for a second? If it does, you have a fuel delivery problem. Check the fuse for the fuel pump. Is it good? Can you hear the injectors clicking, and the fuel pump cycle on? You need fuel under pressure and clicking injectors. In fact, check all of the fuses in the box.
And, don't buy a fuel pump yet. If you have a fuel delivery problem and you have clicking injectors, replace the fuel filter first, and retest.
If you have a spark, and the choke spray does not help it start, it's time to look at timing belt positioning and condition.
Do all that and come back.
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Last edited by timebuilder; 12-28-2006 at 12:13 PM.
Great guys. thanks for the info! I dont think ill be able to check it today, i have to work from 2-10 today, but im not working tomorrow so ill def check it. To recap on what i should do:
1. Remove one of the coil wires, connect a spark plug to the end of it, and hold the spark plug up to a aprt of the chasis that isnt painted for good ground.
2. Spray choke cleaner into the throttle body to check for fuel. If it starts up for a second then theres something worng with my fuel delivery. Ill then check the fuses. Are all the fuses for the fuel system in the fuse box in the engine bay?
These are the most important things i will check for tomorrow. After i do this i will get back to you with my results. Once again, thanks guys!
(It's not easy to determine how precise and complete one must be in this forum, because you can't really assess ability and experience of the participants. If this is too complicated, seek out local help to get through it. Your safety is the most important part.)
1) use an old plug in the end of a wire, and hold it against a clean, non-oily area of the ENGINE BLOCK to ground it, not a body surface. Whenever you do something like this, there is a risk of fire. Common sense dictates that you don’t do this test if you can smell gasoline.
Use the rubber plug wire to position the plug, so you don't get a shock. Don't touch the plug itself or use your fingers to hold the metal shell of the plug against the block. I like to not lean on the metal car at these times, so a leaky wire does not try and complete a circuit through my body.
Have a second person crank the engine for three or four seconds. Look at the middle of the plug opening to see if a spark jumps from the center electrode to the bent electrode. The gap of the electrodes should be adjusted to the serviceable range. If you need to guess, it's about the total thickness of a US dime, .043” or 1.1mm.
2) If you had spark, take off your test plug put the wire back into its well on the working plug and have that helper crank the motor while you apply a burst of three seconds of choke spray into the throttle body. The tricky part is to take the top of the air cleaner off and move the air vane an inch or so with your fingers to simulate air moving through the meter. If the engine tries to start, it means that the engine did not have fuel up until that moment, and it means you have a fuel delivery problem. More work will be needed if that's the case.
3) In this situation, the EFI Main fuse functions as the fuel pump fuse. It’s located in the box near the left fender (viewed from the driver's seat). Power then goes through the closed contact of the EFI Main Relay and the Circuit Opening relay. There is a test point to see if these contacts are made. The small covered connector mounted on the strut tower near the air box has a terminal called "FP", and it has about 12 volts available whenever the fuel pump is being energized. I like to use a test lamp because a meter with a high impedance design can show you a voltage even when there is enough resistance to current in the circuit to keep the pump from turning.
Note: according to the wiring diagram, there is a contact in the air meter assembly that must be closed to help operate the circuit opening relay, so stick you fingers in the air meter and move that vane an inch or so. When your helper cycles the ign key from off to on, the pump should energize (light goes on connected to "FP") for a second or so, and the light connected to “FP” should remain on when the engine is being cranked to show the fuel pump is being sent its power.
and click on the link for your car (top link) and then scroll down to “Electrical Wiring Diagrams”
and when the file loads, check out pages 51 and 52. Those circuits should be the same as on your car.
Go over this in your mind first, then do it with the car. Make sure you understand it, and keep your fingers away from moving parts. Always have a fire extinguisher available, and if you have doubts, don’t do it. Your mileage may vary, and void where prohibited by law.
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Last edited by timebuilder; 12-29-2006 at 12:19 PM.
I went out and checked out the engine block for good ground, but the engine block is covered in dirt and grime, and it doesnt look like cleaning it will get it all off. Theres no way ill be able to get a good ground on the block. Where else can i get a good ground?
Most of the bolt heads available on the engine and accessory brackets can provide a ground. If the engine is a dirty as you suggest, I'd be wary about the spark test, and only because I am not there to satisfy myself that you are minimizing your risk.
With that said, you could apply one lead of a jumper cable to one of those brackets or bolt heads, and clip the other end around the steel shell of your "test" spark plug. At least that way you can have a shot at positioning that spark plug away from oily, greasy dirt that could potentially start a fire. I use cables made up of 4 ga wire or larger.
Places to find the ground where you can attach the cable clamp:
alternator bracket
thermostat housing bolt
transmission case
I like to stay with the engine block or trans for good spark grounds, because that's where the plugs are intended to be grounded. That way, you are mimicing the conditions of the secondary circuit, at least as closely as you can.
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Any ideas??
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