IS350 vs Camry V6 horsepower

[07XLE]

How is it that the Lexus IS350 has the same engine as my 2007 XLE V6 but outputs 303hp compared to my 268hp? Anyone notice that?

[RningOnFumes]

tunning and gear ratios.

plus it's a Lexus....Can't have less power than a family sedan when you're supposed to be a sports sedan, can you?

[Eye8Pussies]

I thought the camry had the 2gr-fe whereas the 350 had the 2gr-fse

[Toysrme]

You are correct sir.
The 2gr-fse has direct injection, which allows it a hair more ignition timing, compression, and less reversion of what charge is put in the combustion chamber -> loweringthe effective compression. The cams are slightly different, along with the mechanical/varriable timings of such. (There is atleast another 5* of possible overlap on the 2gr-fse at any given point.)

The biggest reason for power between the two engines in my personal opinion, is that the 2gr-fe's Y-pipe sucks ass, and the 2gr-fse's is not very far off from being pretty good.
Run a 2gr-fe Camry on 91 octane & it'll be 272bhp. Put a GOOD Y-pipe on it without all the cats (or a highflow) & it'll probably have atleast 290bhp. Add a better than stock intake to it & I see absolutely no reason why it couldn't also make 306bhp.

[joedaddy]

Originally Posted by Toysrme

You are correct sir.
The 2gr-fse has direct injection, which allows it a hair more ignition timing, compression, and less reversion of what charge is put in the combustion chamber -> loweringthe effective compression. The cams are slightly different, along with the mechanical/varriable timings of such. (There is atleast another 5* of possible overlap on the 2gr-fse at any given point.)

The biggest reason for power between the two engines in my personal opinion, is that the 2gr-fe's Y-pipe sucks ass, and the 2gr-fse's is not very far off from being pretty good.
Run a 2gr-fe Camry on 91 octane & it'll be 272bhp. Put a GOOD Y-pipe on it without all the cats (or a highflow) & it'll probably have atleast 290bhp. Add a better than stock intake to it & I see absolutely no reason why it couldn't also make 306bhp.

uhh... no. it can't it doesn't have direct injection..

[Toysrme]

You've missread what I said, or you've just completely missed the boat.

[onefiend]

Originally Posted by Toysrme

The biggest reason for power between the two engines in my personal opinion, is that the 2gr-fe's Y-pipe sucks ass, and the 2gr-fse's is not very far off from being pretty good.
Run a 2gr-fe Camry on 91 octane & it'll be 272bhp. Put a GOOD Y-pipe on it without all the cats (or a highflow) & it'll probably have atleast 290bhp. Add a better than stock intake to it & I see absolutely no reason why it couldn't also make 306bhp.

I agree with the sucky y-pipe...I wonder if 306hp is a good estimation for all the mods you listed including the 91 octane. And it being FWD, I wonder how much this would affect overall drivability.

[s_ajanthan]

Originally Posted by Toysrme

You've missread what I said, or you've just completely missed the boat.

Yep everyone's missed the boat. The ~35HP difference should be attributed mainly to the direct injection which as far as I know is a proprietary feature of the Lexus IS. Here's why...

The Lexus ES350 has the 2GR-FE engine while the lovely IS350 has the 2GR-FSE engine. The ES puts out 272HP vs. 306HP for the IS. Now both require the same fuel, so octane isn't a signifcant contributor to increase HP.

Plus the beauty of 2G-FSE is that it has the standard multiport injection in partnership with direct injection. The way Toyota designed the FSE variant is to have the engine use normal injection unless the engine needs a chunk of the 306 horses. Direct injection kicks in only at higher RPMs (where HP peaks). Direct injection is still terrible with fuel economy so using it at any other time isn't smart.

On a side note, I'm pretty sure the 268HP rating for the Camry 2GR-FE can only be attained by using 91 Octane. Here's some logic. The Carmy V6 and ES350 are very similar. Both have the 2GR-FE engine but since the ES is a luxury sedan, 91 Octane is the required fuel yet the HP for the Camry 2GR-FE is 268HP vs. 272HP for the ES. Which means that either octane doesn't really make a difference or both were tested using 91 Octane... .

Props to Toyrme for those diagrams

[Toysrme]

You honestly don't know what you're talking about. There's no other way I can put that.

Injection method does VERY little to wide open throttle power output. Direct, port, port opening, and throttle body. They change power output very little between them...........................




In fact, the two primary reasons for direct gas injection to be found on engines at the current time isn't power output (Because it has little direct & not alot of indurect affect on that), but emessions, and fuel economy. Because the fuel can be injected so late in the charge, you can avoid detonation at low & part throttle settings to keep the fuel from pre-igniting. In the process you can lean-burn the engine (WHICH DOES NOT have gigantic gains in economy as you would immediately thing at the gross changes in A/F ratio - another cheap myth.) out to ratios in the 30:1 & 50:1 A/F ratios. (Which have previously been used on port injected engines........)











The differance found between the engines found in direct injection is solely in static compression (which would add low end SINGLE DIGIT horsepower gains...), and very minor chamshaft changes which do little more than affect the powerband shape.

The Camry is rated on 87 octane:


The ES 350 is rated on 91 octane:




















And the 3.5L 2gr-fse isn't even close to the first direct injection gas engine amde by Toyota.

In fact, the emessions of it are so poor during start-up of ALL their direct injection engines; they've gone back to 1980's EFI technology to keep emessions down... They can't get enough fuel in the DIS engines, so they use a cold-start injector on them. The 2gr-fse can not achive low throttle economy gains over port injection, nor start-up emessions gains. Which is why it also has port injection installed.








Not to mention the 2gr-fse is a massive engine in hieght, width & girth. And is another 50lbs heavier than the 2gr-fe.

[Toysrme]

Direct injection is not a process that makes power. It is a process that allows more tuneability within an engine. WHEN PRE-IGNITION is a problem with the engine.



Ignition timing VS direct injection is a prime example... Once you have enough timing advanced into a firing cycle to achive as complete a burn as possible @ 20*atdc, feeding MORE timing will lower power output as an increasing amount of your charge combusts as the piston is moving upwards. (Which happens even during peak-power tuning.)

If you can achive optimal ignition timing with any other form of fuel injecting, better forms of injection do nothing for you.




And to add to a discussion that would probably ensue from that discussion. Anyone that has visually seen the differance between most forms of injectors & a carb running at higher flow levels (durations) can testify too. Injectors are no different than a carb. Injectors simply do a better job of atomization, and do not have the 7 in/hg pressure drop through the carb.
Once an injector begins to open at higher durations at higher rpm's. There is simply no longer enough time for the spring to close the injector. The injector pintel stays open 100% of the time regardless of what the signal tells it do to. That being said. The major benifit of the various forms of fuel injection over a carb setup happens in transient responce, controllability, tuneability & the ability to inject aslong as suffecient fuel pressure is supplied to the injectors.